City Council Meeting – October 26, 2026

Introduction:

Links to the video recording and the council packet are at the bottom of this post. Please note any errors or omissions in the comments. Anything noted in brackets was inserted by Clarkston Sunshine.

Agenda Item #1, Call to Order

[There was no Call to Order on the video recording.]

Agenda Item #2, Pledge of Allegiance (video time mark 0:00:05):

Sue Wylie said we’ll say the Pledge of Allegiance.

(Pledge said.)

Wylie said thank you.

Agenda Item #3, Roll Call (video time mark 0:00:19):

Wylie said our third item is a roll call. And since Angie’s [Angela Guillen, clerk] not here, Jonathan [Smith, city manager], would you take the roll call, please?

Sue Wylie, Al Avery, Gary Casey, Amanda Forte, and Ted Quisenberry were present.

Laura Rodgers and Erica Jones were absent.

Wylie said OK, thank you.

Agenda Item #4, Approval of Agenda – Motion (video time mark 0:00:40):

Wylie said Item #4 is approval of the agenda. I need somebody to motion and then a second to approve the agenda.

Motion by Quisenberry; second Avery.

Wylie said any discussion or comments from council members and the public?

No comments.

Motion to approve agenda passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said the agenda is approved.

Agenda Item #5, Public Comments (video time mark 0:01:03):

[Though public comments can sometimes irritate the city council, there is value to both the council and the public in hearing them. While they can’t eliminate public comments entirely without violating the Open Meetings Act, your city council has occasionally decided not to acknowledge public comments during a city council meeting unless the person submitting the comments also appears at the meeting (in-person or electronically) to personally read them. In the past, members of the public have been cut off for exceeding the city council’s arbitrary three-minute time limit (it’s arbitrary because no time limits are required by the Open Meetings Act).

If your public comments were submitted to the council but not read, or if you tried to make public comments but your comments were cut short, please email them to clarkstonsunshine@gmail.com and I will include them in my informal meeting summaries either under public comments or under the specific agenda item that you want to speak to.]

Wylie said Item #5 is public comments.

(Wylie read the rules for public comments.)

Wylie said would anybody like to make a public comment?

Wylie recognized Brendan Leddy for a comment.

Brendan Leddy:

Hello, Clarkston, excuse me, I should say this right. Hello, City of the Village of Clarkston Council. I’m Brendan Leddy, (Leddy provided his address), born and raised here, and I’m a candidate for [state] representative, so I feel like it’s my obligation to say this since election is coming up fast. It’s already happening, actually. You know, mail ballots came out at the end of September. Now we have early voting happening. So, I just want to encourage y’all, vote. I know that I’m talking to the people that probably vote the most out of anybody because they’re already either on the ballot or they are very civically engaged in the community. But I just encourage folks to vote. You now, tell your friends, tell your neighbors to be civically engaged, make sure that you are being a part of the democratic process because that is how we make meaningful change in the community. So, I just wanted to make that comment, not just to you all, but to everybody, make sure it’s on public record that, that this is what y’all should be doing. You know, I always like to, if I meet somebody that hasn’t voted, I’m like, it’s fine, but I don’t want to hear any complaints. That’s what I say, no complaints from you, you know. Society must be perfect for you if you’re not voting. So, I encourage folks to do that, thank you so much. Wylie said great, thank you, Leddy.

Wylie said Item #6 is FYI.

Forte said oh, I have something.

Wylie said I’m sorry, yeah, does anybody else have some public comments?

Forte said yeah, I do, and this is just a topic that I wanted to bring up that was brought to my attention and I drafted an email to Smith that I never sent. So, that’s how far I got on this topic. So, I guess there’s a new rule about the Home Rule City Act and it affects, like, when we can enter office. Have you heard about this? Kristen Kolb (assistant city attorney) said yes. Forte said and so I wanted to talk about what our plan is for November, if we’ll just adjourn those meetings and because we don’t have quorum, end the meetings? Because – (interrupting Forte), Smith said the assumption would be that the existing council members would continue on until their replacements expire. Forte said OK, is that all right? Kolb said yes. Forte said OK.

Smith said OK, so yeah. So, we have, we’ll be down one. I don’t know if Jones would continue on. Having a situation, slightly different situation, she’s not returning, so, but that would be the assumption is yes, continue on. Forte said OK, yep. (To Kolb), Smith said so is it December 1^st that the new people are sworn in? Kolb said assuming the election has been certified, yes. Wylie said and that, I think that’s the whole idea, is give the county time to cert-, the state, whoever certifies the election. So, we actually, we talked about at the end of the last meeting about what was going to happen. Forte said OK, I missed that. Kolb said yeah, and that’s – (interrupting Kolb), Wylie said no, it was after the meeting, actually. That’s when Smith and I talked about it.

Forte said OK, so what’s the plan? Kolb said so, current office holders would stay in office until the new members are sworn in, hopefully December 1st, hopefully there’s no challenges to the election, it’s all been certified. So yeah, you would serve through the end of your term, which would be until, you know, on December 1st when the new folks are sworn in. Wylie said or would we perhaps wait until the first meeting in December – Kolb said you could – Wylie said or have a special meeting on December 1st? Smith said I’m assuming it would be the first meeting in December. Wylie said yeah. Kolb said is that when you took, where you swear in your members? Wylie said we do it, yeah. We always do it at the first meeting after the election. So that would be December 14th.

(To Forte), Wylie said so, you’d, but you’re right, I mean, you’re gonna be on council anyway – Forte said yeah – (continuing), Wylie said and Avery’s gonna be a member still. So, yeah, Jones is the only person who’s questionable. Quisenberry said and you said she, they can continue until they’re replaced, but that’s only if they want to, right? They don’t have to. Wylie said they don’t have to, right. Kolb said technically, with the change in the state law, they are holding office until their successor is qualified and sworn in. Quisenberry said I find that difficult. I said, if I said I didn’t want to run anymore, and I’m serving my term out, and you can’t get anybody to run me, you can’t make me be here. Avery said no, but that would be normal anyways. If she doesn’t show, she doesn’t show. Wylie said right, right. Kolb said yeah, I mean, that was a state law change across all levels of state and local government that the new term of office, because right now townships, historically, their office changes on November 20th, and that’s in the statute, and it’s always been that way. So typically, you would see a swearing in at noon on November 20th by the clerk. Wylie said oh. Kolb said and then they would pick up from there. They are also impacted, they don’t have an election this year, but they are also impacted by that new December 1st is the beginning of the term for all the members. Avery said gives me a little more time.

Wylie said anybody else have questions or comments about this?

No comments.

Wylie said does anybody else have a public comment?

No comments.

Agenda Item #6 – FYI: (video time mark 0:06:45):

Wylie said OK, now we’re moving on to Item #6, FYI.

Item #6a – Clarkston Garden Club – 2026 Holiday Greens Sale (video time mark 0:06:49):

• • Clarkston Garden Club 2026 Holiday Greens Sale Flyer (page 3/30 of the council packet)

Wylie said Clarkston Garden Club has a 2026 holiday green sale, and there is a flyer in the packet. They have wreaths, roping, cemetery pillows, and blankets, a variety of prices. Order online by Monday, November 2nd to pick up locally on Saturday, November 21st. They have a website, which is www.clarkstonfarmandgardenclub.org, and you can also follow them on Facebook.

Item #6b – Recap of the 2026 Shred Day Events (video time mark 0:07:16):

• • Thank You Flyer from Shred Experts (page 4/30 of the council packet)

Wylie said also, FYI, I’ve got a recap of the 2026 shared, I’m sorry, Shred Day events, and I guess they were called the Shred Experts.

(Reading from the flyer), Wylie said thank you to the Village of Clarkston, or City of the Village of Clarkston, for supporting Shred Day events, and they’re saying that, oh, actually, so our worst one, the one with the lowest amount of paper was the April one. 300 pounds of paper, three trees saved, and (to Smith), Wylie said they don’t charge us for it, is that correct? Smith said they do charge us. Wylie said oh, they do charge us. Smith said we have our own shredding – Wylie said right – (continuing), Smith said that we have that we put in the truck, but while they’re here, we’ve been making this available to residents. So, in total, that green bar in the middle, 1,350 pounds of paper shredded, or 12 trees saved, so we’re very happy with that, but we’re reevaluating for next year, because it may not financially make sense to do it, but it seemed like a good thing to do, but not a huge turnout. Wylie said OK.

Agenda Item #7 – City Manager’s Report (video time mark 0:08:23):

• • 10-26-2026 City Manager Report (page 5/30 of the council packet)

Wylie said Item #7 is a city manager’s report, which is also included in the packet, and (to Smith), Wylie said I assume you want to talk about it?

Smith said just a couple things. I mean, it’s pretty self-explanatory, I think, but the distribution of council agenda packets, so when I was at the MML [Michigan Municipal League] conference, one of the topics that came up was, how do you share your packets with the council? And some cities have iPads that they make available. We’ve talked about this in previous, a couple years ago. iPads that are available, and there’s packets readily available on that. Other times, they, I’ve heard that the police, if they have an internal police department, actually deliver packets to the, to the council members. I have just historically just put them out, it’s on our website, you can access that, but I guess I thought it was worthy of question to the council members. Would you like agenda packets emailed to you, or delivered to your house, printed copies? How would you like the packet distributed to you? Do you have any preferences? Wylie said I’m good the way it is now, I just go online and get it. I think Clarkston, maybe you were here longer, but I think the police used to deliver them to the houses of council members. Smith said yeah, back in the day. Wylie said back in the day, yeah. Quisenberry said when you had your own police department? Wylie said yeah, well, it would have to be then. We’re talking a long time ago. Avery said I’m fine with getting it emailed to us on our city email account. Smith said OK. Wylie said that’s fine.

Wylie said all right, anybody else?

Quisenberry said I like coming here on the day, I come here about noon, and I get it so I can read it at home – Forte said yeah, I – (continuing), Quisenberry said. to me, I just find it so much easier to read this than on a tablet. Forte said yeah, I’d love a physical copy at my house, like, before the weekend, like, to read it and have time to mark it up. Just because otherwise it seems like we’re printing all this paper that we don’t use. You know what I mean? If we’re not gonna mark it up in advance, what’s the point of having it all printed out? And, like, I know we’ve talked about this before, but if it’s OK to do it double-sided again, that’d be preferable. Unless that’s too, is it too cumbersome? Smith said no. Forte said OK. Smith said it’s no difference. Forte said the only way I would wanna do iPads is if we, like, looked at the numbers of how much printer paper we go through and if it were to be comparable. Smith  said generally, it’s not. Forte said OK, then it’s not worth it. Smith said not yet. Maybe someday technology will bring it down. Forte said yeah.

Smith said OK. And I’m fine with a mix. So, if you want a hard copy brought to your house, that’s fine. Forte said yeah. Smith said if you want it in an email, that’s fine. Forte said yeah. Smith said it doesn’t have to be all the same answer. Forte said yeah, just because email, I don’t get to as often as I’d like to, but having the physical copy even on the counter, I can just, like, read it as I have a minute or two. Smith said yeah, yeah. OK. Wylie said OK.

Wylie said anybody else?

Forte said thank you for asking.

Wylie said and you got anything, something else in the report?

Smith said the other topic was the rental inspection program. We’ve talked about this for a few council meetings, and I think the feedback I got from Dave Moran [Independence Township building official] who talked to Chuck Phyle [Independence Township supervisor] about it was that they have a lot going on right now, full plate, with adopting their own rental inspection program. They’re still trying to get up to speed. Once they’re up to speed, they do a third of the township every year, but they’re not up to that first milestone. So, he said, maybe if we wait until next spring, then I’d be on a kind of a regular cadence. I’m not there yet. So he said, we’re happy to do it, and Phyle didn’t seem to oppose it. So, if it is something you’d want to pursue, we can talk about it again in the spring. So that would be my thought, is hold off until then, because they can’t physically take on the additional work just yet.

Forte said can you go more into what happened with that gas line? Smith said so, at 4:30 in the morning, oddly, they received a complaint. This would be Consumers Energy, received a complaint. It might have gone into the whole 9-1-1 process, I’m not sure, but it made its way to Consumers Energy that there was a gas leak, a smell of gas on Main Street. So, they quickly came out and, and determined the location. They dug down to it, found a leak, repaired it. So, M-15 was closed for a day. Fortunately, it didn’t go any longer than that. This is the, my recordkeeping says this is the fifth time this has happened in the city. Two last year on North Holcomb. One this summer on West Washington, one on Main Street. There’s a fifth one. I, I’d have to go back and look at my records. But so, they are discovering, it’s a little concerning to me that maybe our gas lines are aging out because it seems to be occurring more and more often that they determine a problem. So, I guess the message to all of you and to our residents would be, if you smell gas, don’t hesitate to call Consumers Energy or even 9-1-1, just get it out there so that they can come and check it out. They do not charge to come out and run their detector to try to determine if there’s in fact a gas leak, but that’s just not something you fool around with. So, I would encourage people to be on the alert to watch, or smell, for gas leaks. So, fortunately got it fixed and we’re back in operations. I think there are a few other businesses around that area, maybe even an apartment there were out of gas for a day, so. But it’s back in operation now.

Smith said any other questions anybody has on the city manager’s report?

No comments.

Agenda Item #8 – Consent Agenda (video time mark 0:14:39):

• • 09-28-2026 Final Minutes, Regular City Council Meeting (page 7/30 of the council packet)
  • 10-12-2026 Draft Minutes, Regular City Council Meeting (page 9/30 of the council packet)
  • 10-26-2026 – Treasurer’s Report (page 11/30 of the council packet)
  • 10-19-2026 – Revenue & Expenditure Report for the Period Ending 09-30-2026 (page 12/30 of the council packet)
  • 10-09-2026 – Rosati, Schultz, Joppich & Amtsbuechler, P.C., September invoices (page 20/30 of the council packet

Wylie said OK, Item #8 is consent agenda. This includes final minutes of the September 28th regular meeting, draft minutes of the October 12th regular meeting, and treasurer’s report for October 26, 2026. I’ll need a motion and a second to approve the consent agenda.

Motion by Avery; second Casey.

Wylie said any comments or questions, discussion from council members?

Quisenberry said you could ask, and I looked at it and I don’t know either, but you can tell us what People v. Kroll is. Kolb said so, it’s a case in the 52-2nd District Court. It involves a, I think the charge is harassing communication. So, a former, a couple that was in a relationship, the woman filed a complaint that her former partner was harassing her through social media. So, and it’s been, we’re actually in court again on it next week. Quisenberry said why are we in it? It seems like a civil matter. Kolb said I know, but it was written as a criminal, that, it’s a crime under your city code, harassing communications. So, a police report was made to the sheriff’s office. Quisenberry said OK. Kolb said a ticket was written to the gentleman. Quisenberry said civil infraction? Kolb said I don’t know, I think it’s a misdemeanor. And we’ve been through multiple rounds in court. The last time we were in court, he had requested a jury trial, but his counsel withdrew, and I haven’t heard if he’s got a new attorney. So, we’re in court again next Wednesday on the 4th.

Wylie said so, anybody else? Let’s see. Yeah, any other questions or comments from council members on the consent agenda?

No comments.

Wylie said from the public?

No comments.

Consent agenda approved by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said the consent agenda is approved.

Agenda Item #9, Unfinished Business (video time mark 0:16:49):

Wylie said Item #7, I’m sorry, Item #9 is unfinished business, which is there’s none.

Agenda Item #10, New Business (video time mark 0:16:56):

Wylie said Item #10, New Business.

Item #10a – Resolution: Chamber of Commerce MOU Addendum for Taste of Clarkston (video time mark 0:16:57):

• • Resolution – Addendum to the Clarkston Area Chamber of Commerce MOU (page 23/30 of the council packet)
  • 03-09-2026 – Memorandum of Understanding (page 24/30 of the council packet)
  • 08-24-2026 – Memorandum of Understanding (page 26/30 of the council packet)

Wylie said Resolution, Chamber of, there’s nobody here, Chamber of Commerce Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) addendum for the Taste of Clarkston.

(Wylie read the resolution.)

Wylie said and I’ll need somebody to resolve and then support. And there are some additional materials here talking about what the Chamber does. I think then we get to Chamber responsibilities, the city responsibilities and all this. I think everybody could look through that. So, I’ll need somebody to resolve and then somebody to support. Forte said to talk about that? Wylie said first, we’ll get a resolution.

Resolution, Forte; second Avery.

Wylie said OK, discussion or comments from council members.

Avery said so, what is the change here? What am I missing (unintelligible)?

Smith said so, the first attachment behind it is the original from April, the Chamber of Commerce Memo, Memorandum of Understanding, but it only covered the community light posts and the concerts events. Coming later was the one that’s titled the Memorandum of Understanding. And this is strictly for the Taste of Clarkston event. So, the two go together, but they came in two separate pieces from the Chamber. So, because the Taste of Clarkston was, as you know, the end of September, we had to go ahead and approve this. So, I went ahead and approved it and signed it so they could move on with their Taste event. But I said I’d need to bring it to council so we can see all the MOUs for the Chamber.

Quisenberry said and by adding that, that’s why we’re getting a higher compensation, the $3,700? Smith said that’s what’s new this time. I’ll be honest, I was holding off because, on signing this because they brought it to me earlier in the summer. But the agreement they had with the township is they were paying them a profit-sharing, there was a profit-sharing calculation in their agreement. And I said, well, if the township is profit-sharing, the city is profit-sharing. And they said, oh, we can’t afford to do that. They went back and they reanalyzed it and they made a tough decision. I give them credit. So, they revamped the township’s agreement and cut out the profit-sharing. They still get a payment that covers their cost, much like we do, but now it’s $3,700. The township does as well. It’s a bigger amount because they have more people, a lot more people. So, I think theirs is around $11,000-something that they get from, but they don’t get the profit-sharing anymore. Percentage of the profits. So now we’re on equal terms with the township, which is where I wanted it to be. So, that’s what had to be revamped. This version reflects all that. I think previously we were getting around $1,800 to $2,000 a year for this. I bumped it up to $3,700 to cover Jimi’s [Turner, Department of Public Works supervisor] costs. I did some math, I don’t have it with me, but it would cover Turner’s and Carson’s [Carson Danis, laborer] time and the use of our equipment. So, this version reflects that.

Avery said was it always a two-year deal? Smith said yes. Avery said OK. I just know that in the spring we had some serious reservations about the light posts and how that was all going down. So, by approving this, we’re signing on for another year, two years of light posts. Smith said well, technically, and even in April, when we approved that, it was a two-year then. This is an MOU. I don’t, I’m not going to speak to the legal side of it, but I think it could be something that could be readdressed in the spring if we want to go back with the Chamber and readdress the light post decorating plan program, if you wanted to reconsider that, we could do that.

Wylie said anybody else on council, questions or comments or discussion?

Forte said yeah. So, if you’ve already signed it, why are we talking about it? Smith said just an official statement, a step from the council to approve that. Technically, this should have come to you prior to signing it. That’s a requirement that I not enter into any agreements without council’s blessing. Then I can sign, but otherwise I’m not supposed to. But in this case, because of the pressure to get Taste going and all their contracts with their vendors going, I went ahead and accepted it and signed it, but I wanted to make it official and bring it to you is, it’ll just make it official.

Forte said can we, if we change it, can we update them or no? Is it past that point? Like if we say we only want to do it through the spring of 2027, can we update them or no? Smith said that’s something that I, I can approach them about doing. So, you’re talking about just the general one for the light post, what Avery was referring to? Forte said yeah, and maybe assessing on a year-by-year basis how much it costs, like instead of just like saying that it’s gonna cost the same amount for every two years, you know what I mean? Maybe just having a one-year contract in general for everything? Smith said we can, we can ask that question. Certainly, the Concerts in the Park, and I think the Taste of Clarkston now, I think the amounts that we charge them for use of our DPW [Department of Public Works] and our equipment, I think they’re fair and I think they would last for two years, it’d still be appropriate. Forte said OK. Smith  said but I acknowledge there’s been a lot of consternation over the light posts internally and externally. There’ve been a lot of comments made about the light post decorations and maybe it is something we need to reopen with the Chamber board. Forte said yeah.

Forte said so if we were to do that, we would just, if we were OK with the concerts and the Taste of Clarkston, we could say that we’re okay with that part for two years, but then we wanna reassess in the spring of 2027 for the light posts? Smith said yes, absolutely. And as it’s mentioned in here, you have final approval – Forte said OK – (continuing), Smith said on the light posts. So, if you don’t like the cornstalks or the flowers or whatever the decoration is for that period, you always have right of refusal on that. So, we want nothing. Forte said yeah. Smith said that would still be an option. You have the final approval.

Avery said right, it was more about the concept that we were allowing them to use our posts for them to make money. Forte said totally. Avery said versus if they were doing it to raise money for a charity or something like that, I think it would be something we would be more amenable to. I think that was part of the issue there. Forte said yeah.

Quisenberry said how were they making money? Avery said because they charge, they put these little plaques in there. If you go up to the stalks – Quisenberry said OK – (continuing), Avery said then the businesses pay to have their logo or whatever on them. Casey said got it. Avrey said so, it’s a moneymaker for them. I’m sure it’s not a huge moneymaker, but it is a moneymaker for the Chamber.

Wylie said anybody else on council, questions or comments?

No comments.

Wylie said public?

No comments.

Wylie said OK, so we have a motion. We do have a, we did resolve and support it. So, I think we should take a vote on it. And then –

Forte said can I propose something? Wylie said well, we can’t change it right now. Let’s have a vote first. Forte said I thought the whole point of originally was to open discussion. Wylie said yeah, we have a discussion. We have a, we’ve resolved to go with this. (To Kolb), Wylie said can she amend it? Kolb said yes. Wylie said OK, we can amend it. But she has to have – Kolb said support. Wylie said support. Forte said OK. Wylie said Avery would have to support it. Forte said OK.

Forte said let me say what I want, and then you can decide from there. Avery said OK. Forte said and no hard feelings either way. So, I would say that we amend it to say that we’re OK with basically everything but the light posts. Wylie said so, you want to do the light, you want to change the time frame of the light posts? Forte said yeah. Wylie said you want to just have that go through just in spring of 2027? Forte said yeah, if that’s all right. I don’t know how we would do that though. Avery said yeah, part of the problem is it’s already a signed agreement. Quisenberry said yeah. Kolb said and was the prior agreement approved by council? Smith said it was. Kolb said the one dated April? Smith said yes. Kolb said of this year? Smtih said yes. Forte said so, we can’t change that? Kolb said you can’t change, you could do a separate motion. Forte said OK. Kolb said but right now the only resolution before you is on this amendment to the – Quisenberry said but we didn’t approve the one that Smith signed in August. Kolb said yeah, that’s the resolution that’s before council. Smith said but that’s just for Taste. Wylie said that’s for Taste of Clarkston. Forte said sorry. Then disregard that. Kolb said so, you’re going with the original motion? Forte said yeah, because it doesn’t. Wylie said OK, the original. Forte said it doesn’t make sense. Wylie said you’re going with the original? Forte said right. Wylie said OK. Kolb said right.

Wylie said anything else from anybody else?

No comments.

(To Smith), Wylie said we’ll need a roll call, please.

Avery, Forte, Quisenberry, and Wylie voted yes.

Casey voted no.

Wylie said so, it goes as one, two, three, four. And the resolution is adopted. Thank you.

Item #10b – Resolution: Sanitary Sewer Pipeline Rehabilitation Recommendation (video time mark 0:28:27):

• • Resolution – Sanitary Sewer Pipe Rehabilitation (page 29/30 of the council packet)
  • High Priority Sanitary Sewer Pipes Recommended for Rehabilitation (page 30/30 of the council packet)

Wylie said and Item #10a is, I’m sorry, #10b, Resolution, Sanitary Sewer Pipeline Rehabilitation Recommendation.

(Wylie read the resolution.)

Wylie said and I’ll need somebody to resolve and then support.

Resolution by Forte; second Quisenberry.

Wylie said OK, questions or comments, discussion from council members.

Wylie I have a question. A lot of times these resolutions involving finance, you’ll have like a 10% extra. This is it. This is all they’re charging. There’s no chance of it going over. Smith said that’s what I’m told. Wylie said OK. Smith said they’re firm on these numbers. Wylie said great. Forte said that’s the contingency, that’s what you mean. Wylie said OK, yeah.

Quisenberry said so, we have a balance of $196,641 in the fund, but we still owe $194,000 from the 2024 service that we had done, correct? Casey said but that’s being charged already. That’s being paid by the assessment. Quisenberry said OK. All right. Smith said yep. Avery said but that’s not the balance though. The $194 isn’t. That was how much it was to repair that. Smith said originally. Avery said yes. And we’ve been paying that. Smith said we’ve been receiving payments. We’ve received five of the eight payments of $44 from each REU [Residential Equivalent Unit]. So, we’ve, we’ve been repaying that. Wylie said and who are we paying that money to? Smith said paying back our water fund. Wylie said oh, the water fund, OK. We borrowed money from the water fund. OK. So, and the water fund is in the black too. It’s got, it has funds, but I didn’t want to tap into that – Wylie said right – (continuing), Smith said given that we already have a loan out of that. Wylie said thank you.

Wylie said questions or comments from council members?

Avery said yeah, I mean, not for tonight specifically, but I think we need to figure out, I mean, this is going to be something that’s going to be happening on an annual basis, seems to me, because our sewer system is older. So, we need to figure out that we need to raise the sewer rates so that we can have more in the bank here. So, when we have to keep writing these checks every year, we don’t have, it isn’t such a big burden. Smith said I totally agree. Greg [Coté, treasurer] and I have talked about that. So, we do need to recognize that fact. These are just the fives. Right behind it are fours, threes, twos, and ones. Avery said right. Smith said and the fours, by the time we get this kind of digested, they’re going to be, the fours are going to be on us, and they might have grown to a five or worsened to a five status. So it is, I hate to say it, it’s an ongoing problem that’s not going to go away. Avery said well, that’s just life. I mean, things don’t stay perfect forever. And I think everybody likes the ability to flush their toilet and have it be taken care of. So, these are things that just need to be taken care of. I don’t like to have to pay more than we have to, but it has to be done. And we have a contract with the township that says we’re going to maintain our lines. And if they don’t, if we don’t, then we’re in hot water with them. And I, we don’t need that. Smith said no.

Wylie said I have a question on item two and three on these repairs. So, this, because one of those two areas, that’s where we did that big repair where they had put that 20 foot, roughly 20-foot hole in the ground. But this is something separate. Smith said this is basically the section in between the two. We did one at the far north end of the East Alley, West Alley, excuse me, and one at the far south end of the West Alley. This section that’s here is in between the two. Wylie said OK. Smith said so that whole alley is problematic, whether it’s unstable ground, and so the pipes, even 20 feet down, are impacted by large trucks going through that alley. That’s, would be my guess, but who knows? The pipeline management company says they have to be addressed.

Smith said the good thing about this lining that they do, when they say rehabilitation, they’re going in, and I’ve explained this to you before, probably, but they go in robotically with a robot that goes down the pipe, and on its way down the pipe, it’s like got water jets that are cleaning the pipe. Well, first of all, they shut off any new sewage from coming in. Then they go from manhole to manhole cover, washing down the pipe, and then on the way back, the same robot can switch and turn into a spraying device that’s spraying liner, and so as they’re pulling it back out, back to the original manhole cover they started in, they’re spraying this liner, and I’ve been told that this liner is so strong that even if the pipe were to go away entirely, just disintegrate, which isn’t gonna really happen, but in a very extreme example, even if the pipe went away almost completely, this liner almost becomes a pipe of its own. It’s that strong. So, what we line will probably last 30 to 50 years, I’m told, so it’s got a long life, but we’ve got a ton of pipe in the city that we have to get through before we be at that point where we can say, we got it done, that’s, that’s a long ways away, right, but it is a, it is a goal to, I think, ultimately line all of our pipes.

Wylie said these repairs, are they going through the manholes or just digging holes down? Smith said going through manholes, so that’s, they talk, this column says MH1, MH2, that’s manhole one, two, so they go down one and they like to line the whole space from manhole one to manhole two, and some of it, you can see it’s 400 feet, sometimes 57 feet, 314 feet, it just depends how far apart those manhole covers are. So, they’re not digging any holes. Wylie said so, I thought when they cleaned it back, whenever that was, a year and a half ago, that’s when they were spraying that liner. Smtih said no. Wylie said no, OK. They just cleaned. Smith said cleaning in an inspection phase that they did on the township’s dime. Wylie said right. Smith said that was strictly just a televise. Wylie said oh, OK. Smith said so, they went down, cleaned it, and on the way back, they televised it. Wylie said OK, all right, I didn’t understand that.

Wylie said OK, anybody else, council members?

Avery said I just, I should know this, but do the businesses pay a higher rate than the residents for the sewer? Smith said they pay the exact same rate, REU, residential equivalent unit, but here’s where the businesses get hit, is that they rarely have one unit. A house is considered one REU. You might have three, four, five, six bathrooms. You’re still considered one REU. In a business, every facility, toilet, sink, dishwasher, wherever, they’re all considered REUs. So, a business might have five, 10, 15 REUs. So, they do pay a lot more just by virtue of how many facilities they have.

Avery said OK, now, and the reason I’m asking is because it seems like that West Alley is more of a commercial district because they’re all businesses there, buildings, commercial buildings. So, one of two things that’s kind of going through my mind is that we restrict trucks from going down that alley. That’s our alley, is it not? Smith said it is. Avery said yeah, and if the alley is not capable of supporting these trucks without damaging our infrastructure, then we shouldn’t allow trucks down there. They can deliver their goods to the front of the stores or however they have to do it. Because it seems kind of silly that we’re letting the trucks go down there and damage the stuff, and then we have to go back and pay to fix it. And that doesn’t seem fair. Smith said delivery trucks, we could absolutely do that. You get a little challenging when you talk about trash trucks and fire trucks. Avery said well, fire trucks is different, right? I mean, they’re going down there because they’ve got work to do. They’re putting a fire out. That’s different than – Smith said trash trucks. Avery said trash trucks. I don’t know, it just seems to me that it’s either we got to redo the alley so it can support these and doesn’t damage the infrastructure, or we got to not allow trucks that can damage them to go down those roads.

Forte said could our engineers recommend a certain weight limit? Smith said you know, it’s something we should talk to them about. It’s a valid point. We can talk to our engineer about should there be signage added, eliminate the weight, the GVWs [gross vehicle weights] that can go on. Forte said and how do you enforce that, you know? Smith said good question. That’s the other aspect of it. They don’t, trash truck drivers – Forte said we have no idea. Avery said well, the police would have to force a weighmaster or anybody like that. Smith said the weighmaster would be the enforcement organization that would do that, but are they out at 5:00 a.m. when the trash hauler is going down the alley? Probably not. Avery said well, if we say no commercial vehicles down this alley, that makes it easy. Forte said yeah. Avery said they don’t have to, the weighmasters don’t have to worry about it. Smith said yeah. Wylie said I think it’s a good idea to limit. But, like you said, garbage trucks are the problem. Are they going to collect from the front? That means their dumpsters have to be in the front. Avery said yeah, I don’t know. That’s the question. Wylie said that’s an issue. Avery said yeah. Or do we know for certain that the alley is not built sufficient to handle that? Or are we just making that assumption based on what we think is going on underground? I’d want to know that, I guess, before I would make that comment.

Smtih said we could have our city engineer do core samples. They go down and pull out these core samples and that’ll tell them the makeup of the soils and whether they’re stable or not. Avery said yeah. Smith said for a, you know, 100,000-pound truck going down.

Quisenberry said you’d think they’d know that after the work they did two years ago there. Smith said they, the, PMC, that’s not their primary job, but they told me that these grounds, this soil is unstable. We know there was a lot of, on the west side of M-15, I didn’t think it was so much in the alley, but Depot Park was a dump at one time. We know that. Literally, a dump. And so, there was trash deposited there. It’s possible that before they grew out to the park area, what we know is now, they were depositing back there. So, it’s possible a core sample would help us figure that out.

Wylie said anybody else from council?

No comment.

Wylie said to the public?

No comment.

Wylie said OK, we have a resolution. Brought by Forte and supported by Quisenberry. We’ll need a roll call for this. Hang on a second. Just so everybody knows on your paper, it says no, no, if you’re keeping track on, it says on the vote. I mean, I know that’s not the, you can vote yes. Smith said very good catch. OK, the first line of no’s will be yes. Wylie said OK.

Wylie, Quisenberry, Casey, Forte, and Avery voted yes.

Wylie said OK, and the resolution is adopted. Thank you.

Agenda Item #11, Adjourn Meeting (video time mark 0:42:36):

Wylie said and the next and last item on the agenda is adjourn the meeting. I need a motion to adjourn the meeting.

Motion by Avery; second Forte.

Motion to adjourn the meeting passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said the meeting is adjourned at 7:43. Thank you very much. Thank you everybody for coming.

Resources:

• • Link to video recording here
  • 10-26-2026 – city council packet