Introduction:
Links to the video recording and the council packet are at the bottom of this post. Please note any errors or omissions in the comments. Anything noted in brackets was inserted by Clarkston Sunshine.
Agenda Item #1, Call to Order
[The meeting was not formally called to order.]
Eric Haven wished everyone a good evening and asked them to say the Pledge of Allegiance.
Agenda Item #2, Pledge of Allegiance (Video time mark 0:00:02):
Pledge said.
Haven told everyone they may be seated.
Agenda Item #3, Roll Call (Video time mark 0:00:18):
Haven asked Karen DeLorge [city clerk] to call the roll.
Bruce Fuller, Mark Lamphier, Amanda Forte, Sue Wylie, and Eric Haven were present.
Gary Casey and Laura Rodgers were absent.
Haven thanked DeLorge.
Agenda Item #4, Approval of Agenda (Video time mark 0:00:45):
Haven said he would entertain a motion to approve the agenda as it has been given to them in the packet.
Motion by Wylie; second Fuller.
Haven asked if there was any discussion.
No discussion.
Motion to approve the agenda passed by unanimous voice vote.
Agenda Item #5, Public Comments (Video time mark 0:01:08):
[Though public comments can sometimes irritate the city council, there is value to both the council and the public in hearing them. While they can’t eliminate public comments entirely without violating the Open Meetings Act, your city council has decided not to acknowledge public comments during a city council meeting unless the person submitting the comments also appears at the meeting (in-person or electronically) to personally read them, but this is a rule that they occasionally adhere to (or not). Mayor Eric Haven has also cut people off for exceeding the city council’s arbitrary three-minute time limit (it’s arbitrary because no time limits are required by the Open Meetings Act), another rule that they occasionally adhere to (or not).
If your public comments were submitted to the council but not read, or if you tried to make public comments but your comments were cut short by the mayor, please email them to clarkstonsunshine@gmail.com and I will include them in my informal meeting summaries either under public comments or under the specific agenda item that you want to speak to.]
Haven read the rules for public comment and asked if anyone wanted to make a public comment this evening.
Haven recognized Chet Pardee for a public comment.
Chet Pardee:
Pardee identified himself and provided his address.
Good evening.
Does anyone else think that something seems to be broken? It seems like too many “do-overs.” How did things get to this point? It seems like the pain is self-inflicted.
Susan Bisio gave city officials a chance to avoid a lawsuit. City officials chose lawsuit. The lawsuit has taken a lot of time and attention. What has the City wanted to avoid disclosing? It feels like additional embarrassment is coming and the “found money” will be spent on legal settlement.
Maybe it’s time to ask, “How did we get to this point?” Consider using the “5 Whys” to get to root cause. Now, what needs to change?
Are city officials choosing the correct priorities? How are priorities being selected? When the ship is sinking, it is necessary to throw things out of the boat. What needs to be tossed overboard? Maybe it’s time for the facilitated workshop. Pardee is sure Julie Meredith [Clarkston Independence District Library director] is still willing to help.
It’s clear the 2023-2024 budgeting process has not gone well. The new finance committee members hardly got a chance to learn. The need for additional revenue was never discussed. The updated capital improvement plan does not include repairing the seven paver aprons on Main Street or West Miller Road. Did the city manager say a million dollars for Main Street sidewalks and paver aprons in the 6/12 council meeting? Should city council ask the planning commission to correct the capital improvement plan to what is currently known?
The proposed 2023-24 budget changed after the public hearing without involving the finance committee. The charts used in the public hearing were not updated to reflect the changes. Again, just not enough time. Did city council actually approve the 2023-2024 budget to now include a projected fund balance below the 16.6% mandated by previous councils? Pardee said he calculates the June 30, 2024, fund balance at 15.7%. Will the charts be updated with the correct information?
Yes, city officials can call the capital improvement plan “a wish list” because there is no revenue plan to support it. Why is no one working on a revenue plan? Should council ask the planning commission to propose a revenue plan?
If the 2023-2024 budget is executed, there will be no monies beyond $100,000 from parking revenue to support the next year’s 2024-2025 capital improvement plan “important” projects which total $300,000, and those projects don’t include Main Street paver aprons or West Miller Road repairs.
With council’s approval of the 2023-2024 capital project budget of $224,000, city council and city citizens should consider the project spending a contract with the city manager unless changed by city council.
Haven thanked Pardee.
Johnathan Smith [city manager] asked Haven if he could respond to some of these points, and Haven recognized Smith to do so.
Smith told Pardee he was not looking to debate this here in this meeting, but he does have to respond to some of these. First of all, Pardee’s comment about the Susan Bisio lawsuit. City officials chose the lawsuit. That makes no sense at all. We did not choose to enter into a lawsuit. We were sued, we responded to a lawsuit. They’ve been responding ever since.
[See Clarkston Sunshine comment #1.]
Pardee says that the ship is sinking, and Smith thinks that’s an insult to those on council and those on the city staff. He does not feel the ship is sinking. Is it at the financial level Pardee would like to see it, the financial control the level he’d like to see? Maybe not, but Smith doesn’t believe the ship is sinking.
Pardee says it is clear that the 2023-2024 budgeting process did not go well. Smith doesn’t know what Pardee means by that. They went through all the steps they normally go through; they settled on their agreement. Yes, between the public hearing and the final there were three adjustments that had to be made. One, because one of his staff members in that timeframe came to Smith and said he would be possibly going elsewhere if he couldn’t get a larger raise. So, there were some adjustments that Smith had to make.
[See Clarkston Sunshine comment #1.]
When Pardee says that the charts in the public hearing were not updated, they absolutely were updated. In that last meeting – Pardee pointed and said those charts – (continuing), Smith said these charts in the last meeting, the one that was presented in, it wasn’t handed out because that was in the public hearing. All the other documents that were in the appropriations act, those were all updated to reflect this one salary change and the two other minor changes. So, those were all in there.
And when Pardee says he calculates the fund balance of 15.7%, remember that the fund balance is only calculated on the 101 account, not everything else. This $44,000 that Pardee is referencing, and that’s the difference between Smith’s 18% and Pardee’s 15.7%, that is because Pardee is assuming that $44,000 is going to come out of the 101. It’s not. It’s coming out of the parking fund. The parking fund is separate. It’s not part of 101. So, the fund balance calculation at the end of the year, and this is what Smith presented to council and what council approved, was at 18%, over the 16.6% minimum required, an 18% fund balance at the end of June of 2024. And Smith maintains that is still the case.
So, in the second meeting, Smith didn’t go through the whole presentation that was part of the public meeting because they had been through that in excruciating detail. But he did have it and he did reference a few of the slides, and then he went into the appropriations act and that’s the bulk of what was discussed in the second meeting. Of course, Smith can share all that detail with the council that reflects those three changes. The most valuable one was a salary change. Everything else was pretty minor.
Pardee said but doesn’t the increase in sidewalk repair cost reduce the fund balance? Smith said not a dime. Pardee said not a dime. Smith said not a dime. Pardee said isn’t the fund balance what remains at the end of the year. Smith said yes, but the parking fund is separate. The fund balance (unintelligible) this question. The fund balance is always calculated on the 101. Revenue and 101 appropriations and only 101. So, Pardee is bringing in other data into the equation that doesn’t belong in the fund balance calculation. At the end of the day, they’re spending money, yes, but the fund balance calculation is traditionally based on the 101 only.
Pardee said he agrees that 101 is the divisor. Pardee believes the numerator is in fact how much money remains after you’ve done your whole budget activity, and Pardee believes that the budget activity is reduced, and he won’t prolong the issue here. Pardee thinks they had an opportunity to not have a lawsuit at the beginning of the process.
Haven said Pardee was entitled to express his opinion. That’s fine.
Fuller wanted to know what lawsuit they are talking about. Pardee said the Bisio lawsuit. Fuller wanted to know if Pardee was talking about the lawsuit that was over, that they took through the court system a few years ago, is that what Pardee is talking about? Haven said no. Pardee said occurring currently. Haven said they are having a closed session on it tonight. Smith said they’ll talk about that later tonight, but that’s the one he’s referring to.
Haven thanked Pardee for his comments and asked if anyone else had a public comment.
No additional public comments.
Agenda Item #6, FYI (Video time mark 0:10:33):
Haven said they would move on to the next agenda item, which is For Your Information. Haven said he would pass these around.
Item 6a – Independence Fest 2023 on July 1st at Clintonwood Park (Video time mark 0:10:43; page 4/34 of the council packet):
The Independence Fest is on July 1st at Clintonwood Park, and there’s a lot of things going on there. Haven is not going to try to elucidate all of them, but there’s two pages. Haven asked Lamphier if he would be so kind as to just help him with just letting the audience see these notices.
Item 6b – Clarkston 4th of July Parade on July 4th Starting at 10 a.m. at St. Daniel Catholic Church (Video time mark 0:11:13; page 6/34 of the council packet)
Haven said the 4th of July parade is on the 4th of July this year. Amazing that it works. And so, it’s going to start at Saint Dan’s and go up to East Church and so on.
So, that’s the three For Your Information items. And you can review the details in the sheets that are coming around.
Haven recognized Peg Roth for a comment.
Roth said she didn’t know if she should make it now or if she should speak to somebody at the office about it. Just a few requests from the parade committee.
Haven said if she wanted to and asked if she would please step to the podium.
Roth identified herself and provided her address.
Haven said we’re at that point in the agenda so that’s important that we have . . . (Haven didn’t finish the sentence).
Peg Roth:
Roth said that there are just a few things that they would like to see if they can have buckled down by the DPW [Department of Public Works], which was offered last year.
The first one is to make sure that the trash is emptied the night before the parade. They’ve had problems with it overflowing, and the sawhorses, if they could put those up. This was offered by the council; she guesses last year. Roth said she was not present at the time this was discussed, to close the roads at Buffalo and Church and Washington and Main. Washington and Main, both sides.
Haven said Washington and Main, both sides, OK. Haven asked if Roth was available for questions and so on if they want to get ahold of her later on. Roth said OK. Haven said OK and thanked Roth for coming. Roth thanked Haven.
Haven asked if there were any other comments on for Four Your Information.
Haven recognized DeLorge.
Delorge said that she and Evelyn [Bihl, treasurer/administrative assistant] made copies of everything, of the events, and DeLorge made a parade flyer (unintelligible). DeLorge said they are on the back table. Haven said that was very nice. DeLorge said so, when everyone leaves, they can grab them. Haven said excellent. DeLorge said with the dates, times and information, and the route and everything on it. Haven said excellent and thanked DeLorge for doing that.
Item 6c – Clarkston Garden Walk on July 19th (Video time mark 0:11:00; page 7/34 of the council packet)
The Clarkson Garden Walk is on Wednesday, July 19th, from 11:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. and that’s always a delightful review of local gardens.
Of course, Haven will give these [the flyers] to all after.
Agenda Item #7, City Manager Report (Video time mark 0:12:58; page 8/34 of the council packet):
Haven said they are moving on to the next item on the agenda. This is the city manager’s report that they have in their packet. Haven said he would just indicate the paragraphs here and then if they have any questions or comments, council first, and then if the audience has any.
The construction plans for Rudy’s are fully approved. That’s really good news. And so, they’ll be moving ahead with a completion date, hopefully late in 2024.
Depot Road paid parking status is waiting for signage at this point and will be opened as soon as that signage can be installed.
The EV charging stations are almost ready, and Haven didn’t think there’s a date on there. He asked Smith when he anticipated when that would be available. (Smith made an unintelligible comment about DTE.) Haven said he gets it.
Haven said OK, the temporary ban on all open burning continues. That’s interesting and ironic in light of the rain. Smith said (unintelligible) after today. Haven said but they’ll be next.
Haven said that the city offices are closed on the 4th of July.
Haven asked if there were any questions or comments for Smith relative to the city manager’s report.
Wylie said she had a question for Smith and it’s from a neighbor asking about the no motorized vehicle signs. They mentioned there’s three of them at Depot Park, and they’re concerned because they use golf carts to get down to Depot Park for someone who can’t walk. So, basically the main thing is they want to know why.
Smith said he suspects the man that Wylie was referring to was here at the outset, early on, before people were coming in and raised that issue, yes. Wylie said today, OK. Smith said he explained to him, and he doesn’t know if Wylie saw Smith’s e-mail, he did send her the ordinance. We do have a city ordinance that was written many, many years ago, even before a lot of these motorized vehicles now that Pardee mentioned earlier, these motorized skateboards that have one wheel in the middle. Smith said he doesn’t know, there’s probably a trade name for those, but those things can go like 20 miles an hour and could easily knock somebody over. There are a lot of other vehicles is Smith’s point, that even when this ordinance was written, it was mainly, he thinks, geared towards motorcycles and cars. But now there’s a lot, there’s a plethora, you know, of these off road four-by-four, four-wheel vehicles that could be brought into the park. So, the ordinance is written that no motorized vehicle other than driven by, as it says in there by muscular power.
Wylie asked Smith to repeat that. Smith said anything that’s not driven by muscular power is a violation of the ordinance and not allowed in any of the parks. Smith said he doesn’t know, they just really have the one and then Deer Lake Beach. But yes, unfortunately those are banned. So, he made a strong case, his wife is handicapped, and how does he get her down here? She can never come down here again. Smith said Haven pointed out there are scooters, there are other motorized wheelchairs that Smith thinks you know, they could make an exception for, but he wants to bring his golf cart down.
Smith said that’s why, you know, they’ve had incidents where they’ve had people driving down this road, this pathway, and that’s why they put the bollards in the pathway. Smith said he’s sure that’s he’s aggravated by that bollard that’s in the pathway down at the bridge because you can’t get between the bollard and the bridge. But Smith remembers going out and stopping a woman that was driving from the bridge down here and she had gotten over the Bart Clark bridge. Wylie asked if it was in a car. Smith yes, in a car. It was a small car, but it was still a car, and Smith stopped her and said where are you going? And she’s looking at her phone that says, well, I’m on my way to the store and I’m on hold. Like, what are you talking about? She was just as baffled at Smith was as Smith was of her.
Smith said so, it is dangerous with all the kids in the park. He thinks it’s not a time to relax the ordinance, but that is council’s prerogative. If they feel for this man or others that can’t access the park because of handicap or other reasons, should there be exceptions made. It’s certainly something that they could bring the ordinance up or have the planning commission review the ordinance to see if it’s still appropriate, but barring a change in the ordinance, Smith is just enforcing the ordinance, and that’s what those signs do, and the bollards do. Wylie said OK. She will pass it on, but it sounds like maybe he discussed it with Smith today. Smith said (unintelligible) he was not happy. He walked out, but Smith is sorry, that’s the ordinance. Wylie said OK, thank you.
Haven said the only other thing he can see possibly, because again, the kids have a lot of mobility these days. Powered mobility, a lot of very large scooters that are available and they have ADA compliant, you know, pathways, so they’re trying to walk the line there, but in special cases like that they may look at permitting. You know, that’s something maybe the planning commission could look at and advise them. Permitting. Again, that wouldn’t be a real hard thing. You’d have to understand the situation, you know. Anyway, it’s a thought. Smith agreed. Wylie said she thinks it’s a good thought. Haven said you always want to allow for some sort of tolerance on some things.
Wylie said because in reality, you know, those little scooters you’re talking about. They actually are motorized, and they probably can’t go as fast as, say, a golf cart could. Smith agreed. Haven said they are pedestrian sidewalks. Wylie said yes, they are designed for pedestrians, but maybe they could look at permitting something. She doesn’t know how many situations, she doesn’t know how many people have golf carts that would want to use that though, but she does know, she sees him bring his wife down here. Smith agreed. Haven said it’s really sympathetic to that.
Smith said they can bring it up with the planning commission. Haven said just give it to them, yes. Wylie said OK, thank you.
[See Clarkston Sunshine comment #2 for website links regarding where to file a complaint for state or federal handicap discrimination.]
Agenda Item #8 – Motion: Acceptance of the Consent Agenda as Presented (Video time mark 0:19:11):
- 05-22-2023 Final Minutes (page 9/34 of the council packet)
- 06-12-2023 Draft Minutes (page 12/34 of the council packet)
- 06-26-2023 Treasurer’s report (page 15/34 of the council packet)
- 06-21-2023 Revenue and Expenditure Report for the Period Ending 05-31-2023 (page 15/34 of the council packet)
- Carlisle/Wortman, 05-2023 bills (page 25/34 of the council packet)
Haven said all right, the next item on the agenda is Item #8, and that’s the consent agenda. They do this to make the meeting very efficient by consolidating three things: the final minutes from their meeting two meetings ago, that would be 05-22; the draft minutes from the last meeting; and the treasurer’s report dated 06-26.
Haven said he would entertain a motion to accept the consent agenda. That way, if any of them have anything they’d like to pull out of it for conversation, that’s certainly permissible as well.
Haven asked for a motion to accept the consent agenda as presented.
Motion by Wylie; second Lamphier.
Haven asked if there was any discussion.
No discussion.
Motion to accept the consent agenda as presented passed by unanimous voice vote.
Agenda Item #9, Old Business (Video time mark 0:20:16):
Haven said the next item is old business. There is none in this meeting.
Agenda Item #10, New Business
Item 10a – Resolution: Establish the Millage Rate for the City for the 23-24 Fiscal Year (Video time mark 0:20:19):
- Resolution: To Establish the Millage Rate for the City of the Village of Clarkston for the 2023-2024 Fiscal Year (page 27/34 of the council packet)
- Form L-4029, 2023 Tax Rate Request (page 28/34 of the council packet)
Haven said there were three items. First is a resolution establishing the millage rate for the city for the 2023-2024 fiscal year.
Haven asked Tom [Ryan, city attorney] if he wanted to lead that discussion. Haven said hang on a second, he will read it for him.
(Haven read the resolution.)
While reading, Haven said he doesn’t have a list of the council members present and absent from that meeting. He knows he was absent. He also said he didn’t have the name of the council member who offered the resolution; he had just a blank form in front of him. He said that would be in the minutes of that meeting.
Haven said for this meeting, he does need a resolution to be offered by some council member.
Motion by Forte; second Wylie.
Ryan said that’s the July 2023 tax bills. Haven said excuse him, did he misspeak. Ryan said no, no, it says 2021. It’s 2023. July 2023. Wylie said oh yes, it does, right down there at the very bottom. Haven said OK, thank you.
Haven said all right, so they have this resolution before them, and they have a motion by Forte and a second by Wylie.
Haven asked if there was any discussion on the part of council relative to this resolution.
No discussion.
Haven asked if there were any questions from the audience. They’ve been through this several times.
No questions.
Haven asked DeLorge to take the roll please on this resolution.
Fuller, Lamphier, Forte, Wylie, and Haven voted yes.
DeLorge said Rodgers and Casey are absent.
Haven said so, the resolution is adopted.
Item 10b – Resolution: Request from the Clarkston Historical Society to Waive Park Fees for Art in the Village (Video time mark 0:24:06):
- Resolution – Waiving Depot Park Rental Fee for Art In the Village (page 29/34 of the council packet)
- Document from the Clarkston Historical Society (page 30/34 of the council packet
Haven said the second item under new business is another resolution request from the Clarkston Historical Society to waive park fees for Art in the Village. And that is according to Haven’s notes here and the resolution, September 16th and 17th. Is that correct? DeLorge said yes. Haven said all right, he will read the resolution and then take a motion to adopt.
(Haven read the resolution.)
Haven asked if there was any discussion. He needed a motion. Who wants to put this one forward.
Motion by Fuller; second Forte.
Haven said they have a motion to adopt and a second.
Haven asked if there was any discussion on the part of council.
Fuller said he wondered if the grass will be in by September so that people can destroy it when it rains that weekend? Smith said yes, it will. Fuller said OK.
Haven said he might just preface this, but it falls under a larger canopy. They usually do this for 501(c)(3) organizations or charitable organizations, right? He’s glad Smith clarified that at the beginning, that’s what the Historical Society is. [Note: the city manager is the president of the Clarkston Community Historical Society; his wife is a paid director of the society’s museum.] That’s certainly a wonderful event, you know, and it gets better and better every year. And then the park is just a wonderful, lively place, you know, during this event, so thank you all for all your hard work. Appreciate what you’re doing.
An unidentified woman thanked Haven for taking this under consideration. Haven said not at all. You’re valued here.
Wylie said she’d like to say something. Yeah, she values the – (to the person who raised her hand), Wylie said she gets to go first. Let her go first. She gets to go first. Every year this comes up, she feels like, and nothing against the Clarkston Historical Society, but this is it’s a lot of work, she thinks, for she doesn’t know how much we end up paying the DPW [Department of Public Works] guys extra, but it just seems like this might be a group that should pay the $200.00. It troubles her every year that this happens.
To Smith, Haven said they get a lot of hands on deck, don’t they, for that sort of thing? Haven doesn’t know how much or what the ratio would be about DPW helping. Smith said they do, they do pay, for maybe not all of it, but some of the DPW’s wages. The historical society gets a calculation from Jimi [Turner, DPW supervisor] afterwards and then they, they kind of checked, in the city. They’ve done that the last three or four years.
Wylie asked if it was like half their wages. Smith said probably about half their wages. Haven said that certainly offsets what Smith is asking for here. You know, so it probably ought to be noted in the future in these resolutions that they’re doing that as well.
Wylie said but so roughly, what would Smith say the DPW is being paid between the city and the historical society for this weekend? Wylie said she knows that she’s asking Smith for almost a year ago, but yeah. Smith said it’s typically between $500 and $600 for the weekend, and the historical society has paid between $300 and $400 the last couple of years. He didn’t know what this year will be, but it will probably be in that neighborhood.
Wylie said so, in other words, really the city could be out between $400 and $500 considering we lost the $200 since we’ve waived the fee. But if we do waive the fee, and the extra money we’re paying DPW workers for work that they wouldn’t be doing otherwise, that’s a big chunk of money. She knows there’s a lot, it seems like every time somebody comes and asks to have the fee waived, there’s always a discussion on it. Who should they do it for? They probably ought to have stronger guidelines about who can be waived and who can’t be waived. And that never happens. They never have gone – Haven said it’s usually applicable for the 501(c)(3) variable. Wylie said she does believe that the Clarkston, she thinks she’s technically a member of the Clarkston Historical Society, and she knows they do a lot of good for the city, but this really troubles her.
Smith said it’s probably timely, because the people you see here tonight, they’re there to help explain some of the things that the historical society does, and maybe it’s just a good point just to update council on the things that the historical society does and doesn’t do. Wylie said OK.
Smith said they don’t do Historic District Commission work. Wylie said she understands that, she understands completely. Smith said there has been some confusion, because everybody thinks it’s one and the same. But they’re not the Historic District Commission. The historical society is doing a lot of different things and Smith doesn’t know if anybody –
An unidentified woman said she would be happy to take that point. She means, they put together the fact sheet because she does think there are a lot of people – Wylie said she did look through it – continuing, the unidentified woman said still don’t know what they do. (Crosstalk between Haven and Lamphier about passing around a document to the audience.) The unidentified woman said she would argue that the benefits to this community greatly outweigh a $200.00 park waiver and the time that is spent, the small amount of time that’s spent by the DPW workers to help to help support them.
The unidentified woman said it’s their 51st show. The money is reinvested right back into this community. Every penny of it. The signs that people are looking at around town, they have either purchased those outright or they have subsidized them in most cases. Haven asked if she was talking about the historic markers, right? The unidentified woman said the markers, yes. Haven said $1,600 apiece, if he remembers correctly. The unidentified woman said yeah, and they plan to do three more this year.
The unidentified woman said she thinks they know that they operate the museum that’s located within the library, they’ve become involved, it was the historical society that came up with the original Shiver on the River that has now turned into a holiday parade and celebration in the park. They took over some children’s games and prizes, and it’s so it isn’t just about the art fair. It isn’t just about the museum, but she thinks they make a positive impact on the community. It brings thousands of people into town. Restaurants are full, the stores are full. She doesn’t really, she’s trying to figure out what the downside could possibly be.
Haven said he would agree. He would argue that maybe they, of all the 501(c)(3)s that they see, probably reinvest everything back here, you know, as opposed to some others that benefit, they’re a charitable cause, but not necessarily within the confines of the village.
The unidentified woman said even the storage fees for, you know, they have to store the collection, store the Clark buggy. You know those are local businesses, they buy, you know, they have to have insurance. All of this money stays very, very close to home, and there’s no there’s no fat in their budget, believe her. She thinks the work they do, the enrichment they bring to the community, is worth the investment.
Haven asked if any other council member had a comment or question.
Fuller said he always wondered where they could store all that stuff that goes in the museum. The unidentified woman said now he knows. Fuller said he really enjoys that museum and he goes through there and it’s like ever changing clothing and the toys and all that stuff. And like whose garage they keep this in. There’s just so much of it. The unidentified woman said yeah. Fuller said it’s really a great educational feature that they’ve developed.
The unidentified woman said they also have to make provisions if the historical society ceased to exist. There is still a very large collection that needs to be cared for, insured, you know, they see themselves as caretakers of that for future members of the board, you know, however, you know those things are used in the future.
Fuller asked if they were involved in publishing the educational materials, the books. Haven said second graders. Fuller said his niece was one of the authors of one of those books and they were one of the publishers. The unidentified woman said the historical society, yeah. Fuller said that is a nice resource.
Haven asked Smith how many classes did they entertain this year. Smith said that was outside of the historical society. Haven said he knows, but the study they do in the school. Smith said 20 sessions with 20 students each.
Fuller said his children used to tour the homes. Does Haven know if they still do that? Smith said they don’t go into the homes, but they do walk up and down the street, and they look at the historical markers as they’re doing their little tour.
Fuller said he definitely sees Wylie’s point about, you know, they approve a lot of waivers on the park. And some of them are, you know, you wonder how directly beneficial they are to this community, but he would tend to agree that this one is a benefit to our community. Haven agreed. The unidentified woman said and the park is fully open. Families could come down and picnic. Their kids could still play on the playground equipment. They could come, they could come for both days and not spend a dime. There’s free activities, you know, she thinks it’s a good thing for the community. It’s good for the small businesses who sell their things as part of their Art in the Village, and she thinks there’s a very tangible benefit that they’ve learned this show brings.
Haven asked if there were any other comments.
Peg Roth said that she agrees with what Wylie said. And while that is a wonderful thing that they bring, so do all the other people. She just wondered maybe if it isn’t time to button down how people are charged, who’s exempt, who has to pay, because they all could come in and tell you, the Clarkston Farm could tell you a myriad of things they do for the whole community. Haven said sure. Roth said so, she thinks maybe it would be time to have some kind of a fine line as to who does pay, who doesn’t pay, that would be her only comment. She can’t imagine why anyone wouldn’t think this is a wonderful thing for our community. But so are the others, and there are a number of other community groups that host things, and Roth thinks maybe the balance should be a little more even.
Haven said well, that’s kind of the point. That we do honor most of the 501(c)(3)s, and Roth is right, they all have a story. Roth said right, so you want most, or all. Haven said pretty much all by the designation, charitable designation. That’s kind of been their, they look for a principle to use and that’s been the principle to use. So again, they can make an exception certainly, but charitable certainly seems to be the designation.
Forte said if they’re charitable, why are they presenting. Haven said they are a nonprofit, a 501(c)(3). Forte said but doesn’t that mean that they normally approve them? Wylie said they still have to approve them. Haven said on principle, but it still comes from our council, OK. Forte said always. Haven said any time they vary from, it’s a monetary issue, they have to pass a resolution to that effect. That’s what they have.
Forte wanted to know if they could set a policy that just says 501(c)(3)s are good? Haven said they could, but he doesn’t know if they’ve done it officially. Smith said they’ve not done that, but that is something that they could do, if that’s going to be the dividing line is the nonprofit, they could bring a blanket rule. That’s what the latest FOIA was about, right, Smith approving to waive a fee. And he did that based on historical. There were two that he did and that’s what the FOIA lawsuit is all about.
Haven said it may be better that they don’t have it defined so tightly that they don’t have any discretion left over, so you can see a whole raft of terrible organizations coming at us here, you know, and they really don’t receive much benefit from it. Just the fact that they are a 501(c)(3) wouldn’t justify it. So, he thinks it’s a good point that it comes before them every time. It gives them jurisdiction and discretion and also helps them know what’s going on in our village.
Smith said so, continue to bring everyone. Haven said you know, it’s his opinion, and it’s subject to everyone else’s opinion too. He has one vote on council.
Wylie asked if she could say something again. She would just like to reiterate, reiterate again, there’s no doubt in her mind that the Clarkston Community Historical Society does offer a lot of benefits to the community. She’s not saying anything against that, but where the downside is, is to their budget. They’re trying to keep a tight budget and watch where they spend money and they are spending a lot of money on this event, more so than she’d say any other charitable organization that comes and asks to have the fee waived. So that’s her point.
Fuller asked if some of this work, he knows personally, he’s worked with Boy Scouts and picked up trash out here during those events. Could more of the work be done by volunteers such as Boy Scouts and their hapless parents. Smith said they do try to engage the Boy Scouts every year. They do have a steady commitment by one of the local troops that helps them every year. Smith said he can certainly talk with Turner about ways that they can scale back the number of hours that they’re working. You know Turner. He’s just all hands on and just does an amazing job, so it’s hard to not accept his efforts. Fuller said right. Smith said but can they scale that back, he’s sure they can. This past year, there was mix-up on the hours, and if you were looking at the budget, you probably saw that because they mixed up some of the Taste of Clarkston hours and they put them in the Art in the Village line item. And Smith asked Greg [Coté, treasurer] about a way to clean that up, and he said it would be very difficult to do after the fact, so it stayed there. The Taste of Clarkston, which is another big 501(c)(3) event that they typically waive every year, and another one that even has more hours of Turner and Carson [Danis, DPW laborer] than Art in the Village does. [The Clarkston Area Chamber of Commerce is a 501(c)(6) organization. 501(c)(6) applies to “Business leagues, chambers of commerce, real-estate boards, boards of trade, or professional football leagues.”] And they put a big chunk of their Taste hours into their Art in the Village line. They didn’t find out until, like, two months later. So, that’s why Smith knows it’s excessive. In a normal year, they work pretty much all day Saturday and a half-day on Sunday. What is that 8 hours, 16, 24 hours of time, they need to give you guys for work.
Pardee asked if they were paid time and a half and double time for Sunday? Smith said they are paid time and a half, not double time, but time and a half. And the historical society has paid that, to bring that down. Pardee said that Turner is $37.50 now. $25 plus, $37.50 an hour.
Haven said that the only other comment that he would make is that he would like to support for (unintelligible) is sort of unabashed, hardworking, volunteerism. He thinks it’s something they can’t do without in this community. They need you to volunteer, so that’s what you all do. Do the work, right? Without pay for what you do. So, they’re grateful.
Haven recognized Jennifer (no last name provided).
Jennifer said she’s had several, like, committees in Clarkston and this one is like no other. Volunteers are really hard to get, and they work their butts off to get who they can get. And this team of ladies works very hard to get who they get. She’s not sure that that list is going to get any longer. The volunteers just aren’t there, it’s historic, in every committee in every city. Haven said every institution. Jennifer said every, you know, every PTO and every everywhere.
An unidentified woman said people just aren’t joining organizations.
Jennifer said that thought process of having more volunteers is wonderful and she wishes it was the truth and that would be so great that 20 more people would say, yeah, hey, we’ve come out and work. It’s not reality. Haven said right. She’s just putting that out there. Haven said he sees it everywhere. He gets it.
Haven recognized Toni [no last name provided, presumably Toni Smith, the city manager’s wife.]
Toni said that volunteers do something separately than Turner and Danis. They’re not asking them to man a tent. Haven said right. Toni said they’re doing things that require park maintenance, or you know, the electricity stopped working. Those kinds of things. It’s not something they can, you know, they can go ahead and start fixing themselves. Haven said right. Haven said it’s facilities, right. Toni said it’s not that easy to entertain other people.
Haven asked if there was any other discussion.
No additional discussion.
Haven asked DeLorge to take a roll call on this resolution.
Forte, Fuller, Haven, and Lamphier voted yes.
Wylie voted no.
Haven said the resolution is adopted.
The unidentified woman thanked the council.
Item 10c – Resolution: Budget Amendment for the 22-23 FY Budget (Video time mark 0:43:56):
- Resolution – 2022/2023 FY Budget Amendment (page 31/34 of the council packet)
- Chart Depicting the Budget Amendment Request (page 32/34 of the council packet)
Haven said the next item on their agenda is a resolution. They have three resolutions tonight. A budget amendment for the 2022-2023 budget. And this is the breakdown of what Smith was talking about earlier. The adjustments. They do this at this time every year pretty much, right, come to the end and you figure out what you need to kind of, nothing exceeds the budget, it just is movement within the budget.
Smith said correct.
Haven said so, they have a list of this, he doesn’t know if anybody is interested in hearing all these items. They’re somewhat mundane. But their total is $12,479.30 adjustments to be made. So, the resolution reads like this.
(Haven read the resolution.)
Haven said to and again he’s happy to send that over to Lamphier [to pass out]. He hates to exercise Lamphier one more time. If anybody wants to look at that detail list, they’re welcome to do that.
Haven said he needed someone to bring forward this resolution, to move to adopt it.
Motion by Lamphier; second Fuller.
Haven said there is a motion and second and asked if there was any discussion about this resolution for adjustment to the budget from council.
No discussion.
Haven asked if anyone in the audience had any questions.
No questions.
Haven asked DeLorge to take the roll.
Haven, Fuller, Wylie, Forte, and Lamphier voted yes.
Haven said OK, the resolution is adopted.
Haven said that’s the end of their new business.
Agenda Item #11, Closed Session
Item 11a – Resolution to Meet in Closed Session (Video time mark 0:46:13):
Haven said the next item on their agenda is a resolution to enter into closed session.
Haven said he would read the resolution so that everyone understands.
(Haven read from the resolution.)
Haven said present were the people you see here, and the absentees will be noted.
Haven asked for someone to offer the resolution.
Motion by Wylie; second Forte.
(Haven continued to read from the resolution.)
Haven said they needed to take a roll call for this and asked DeLorge to please take the roll.
Wylie, Forte, Lamphier, Fuller, and Haven voted yes.
Haven said the resolution is adopted, and they are in closed session.
Pardee asked if they will return.
Ryan said the council will come back in open session after their discussion. The meeting is not over. It has not been adjourned.
[Camera shut off.]
Item 11b – Discussion: Proposed Settlement
[This discussion took place during the closed session, outside of the public’s view. The council returned to open session at time mark 0:48:50.]
Haven said OK, they’re back in open session.
(Wylie and Smith had an unintelligible discussion about a document.)
Agenda Item #12 – Resolution: Accept/Reject Proposed Settlement of Bisio v City of Clarkston Lawsuit (Video time mark 0:48:59):
Haven said that they discussed a resolution that he is going to read to everyone now.
(Haven read from the resolution.)
Haven asked who will bring this resolution to council.
Motion by Forte; second Wylie.
Haven asked if there was any discussion about the resolution.
No discussion.
Haven asked DeLorge to please take the roll.
Forte, Fuller, Wylie, Lamphier, and Haven voted yes.
Haven said the resolution is adopted.
Agenda Item #13, Adjourn (Video time mark 0:51:01):
Haven said he would entertain a motion to adjourn.
Motion by Forte; second Lamphier.
Haven asked if there was any discussion.
No discussion.
Motion to adjourn passed by unanimous voice vote.
Resources:
- Link to video recording:
http://216.11.46.126/CablecastPublicSite/show/4217?site=2