August 11, 2025 City Council Meeting

Introduction:

Links to the video recording and the council packet are at the bottom of this post. Please note any errors or omissions in the comments. Anything noted in brackets was inserted by Clarkston Sunshine.

Agenda Item #1, Call to Order (Video time mark 0:00:01):

Sue Wylie said it’s seven o’clock, calling the meeting to order.

Agenda Item #2, Pledge of Allegiance (Video time mark 0:00:03):

Wylie said if everybody would please rise, we will say the Pledge of Allegiance.

(Pledge said.)

Wylie said thank you.

Agenda Item #3, Roll Call (Video time mark 0:00:23):

Wylie said Item #3 on our agenda is a roll call and (to city manager Jonathan Smith), Wylie said are you serving as clerk today? Smith said yes, Angie [Guillen, city clerk] is in class this week, or training this week, and Erica Jones did (unintelligible). Wylie said yes.

Sue Wylie, Laura Rodgers, Al Avery, Gary Casey, Amanda Forte, and Ted Quisenberry were present.

Wylie said thank you.

Agenda Item #4, Approval of Agenda – Motion (Video time mark 0:00:53):

Wylie said and Item #4 is approval of the agenda. I need somebody to make a motion and then a second to approve the agenda. Quisenberry said will you be able to do this meeting without Jones to approve the agenda? Wylie said oh yeah. Quisenberry said to make the motion. Wylie said it’s always the newest people on council who jump. I remember doing that, I was like, I’ll do it, I’ll do it, I’ll do it.

Motion by Avery; second Rodgers.

Wylie said any discussion from council.

No discussion.

Wylie said anything from the public.

No discussion.

Motion to approve the agenda passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said the agenda is approved.

Agenda Item #5, Public Comments (Video time mark 0:01:29):

[Though public comments can sometimes irritate the city council, there is value to both the council and the public in hearing them. While they can’t eliminate public comments entirely without violating the Open Meetings Act, your city council has occasionally decided not to acknowledge public comments during a city council meeting unless the person submitting the comments also appears at the meeting (in-person or electronically) to personally read them. In the past, members of the public have been cut off for exceeding the city council’s arbitrary three-minute time limit (it’s arbitrary because no time limits are required by the Open Meetings Act).]

[If your public comments were submitted to the council but not read, or if you tried to make public comments but your comments were cut short, please email them to clarkstonsunshine@gmail.com and I will include them in my informal meeting summaries either under public comments or under the specific agenda item that you want to speak to.]

Wylie said Item #5 is public comments.

(Wyle read the rules for public comments.)

Wylie said would anybody like to make public comments.

Wylie recognized Chet Pardee for a comment and said we’ve received an email. Pardee said good evening and gave his and his wife’s home address.

Chet Pardee:

I have not heard any city official or council member comment on Smith’s indication at the public hearing that the city of Clarkston may not be able to continue as a city. I’ve listened again to the video to be sure I heard it correctly, and you may recall that after Smith made the comment, I invited him to repeat it again.

So, the issue is finances due to rising costs with no offset in revenue. The current budget includes, for instance, $170,000 for repaving Church Street and West Miller. And since the budget was determined, Smith had an engineering company, Fleiss and Vandenbrink, and that person came here as an engineer. And he was saying that the cost to the village would be $245,000 with the grant. So, and I think the grant was like about 50% or something. So, it was much greater than I think anybody thought it was gonna be.

So, we’ve got that against $170,000 in the budget for both West Miller and Church. And the last time West Miller was discussed in a council meeting several years ago, the cost to redo West Miller was $170,000 itself. And costs related to Upper Mill Pond and Lower Mill Pond being connected and sidewalks weren’t in that $170,000.

Requirements and costs for Oakland County assuming pond responsibility had not been defined to my hearing. During the budget discussions, Smith pointed out the need to update the RAMP [Road Asset Management Plan] report. That’s the report that analyzes our streets and roads to determine their condition and provide repair cost estimates. This report hasn’t been updated since 2019. So, it must have been done I think in 2016 initially. The updated five-year capital project costs were included in the public hearing budget presentation. There were a couple of pages around the end. And I believe that was Smith’s and Greg’s [Coté, city treasurer] estimate of future capital costs for the city. And from that and with the knowledge of road repair, I suggest that Coté prepare a budget for all costs, not just roads, for the next three years so that we can see down the road in front of us.

Wylie thanked Pardee. Pardee thanked Wylie.

Wylie said anybody else have public comments.

Wylie recognized Forte for a comment.

Forte said something that’s gonna be on the next council agenda is the tree report. So, like, the tree committee, typically every year, we did last year, plants trees. And currently we’re looking at planting 15 trees, but that would come in around $1,600 and we only have budgeted $5,000. So, $1,600 over. And I’m wondering should – (interrupting Forte) Wylie said I’m sorry, how much is budgeted? Forte said five grand. Wylie said and how much did you say these trees, 15 trees came up to? Forte said six – Wylie said I misunderstood. Forte said no, not 16. Wylie said $6,100. Forte said $6,100. I don’t know what I said, but that’s what I meant to say. Wylie said okay.

Forte said and I’m just wanting to talk about that before we get too far. Yeah, it’s $6,160. So, we can either, so we have a criteria basically for planting trees and it’s based on whether or not a house has one or two trees or zero trees in their easement. So, unless they had a tree removal and then that would basically prompt having a new tree put in. Therefore, all our calculations lead to 15 new trees and that also includes the replacement trees that are dead on Main Street. So, we would have to then choose, like pick and choose which houses don’t get trees. But I wanted to see if it would be okay if we go over and I just want to talk about that before we get too far.

Wylie said we can’t, you know, we can’t get in okay tonight. Forte said no, I just – Wylie said okay, you just want to get a feel for it. Forte said yeah, I just want to be fair before we like, which we’ll get a quote and come in, but that’s already in process.

Wylie said so, you just mentioned dead trees on Main Street. So, these are trees that have been already removed or they still have to be removed? Forte said we have one that’s dead that needs to be removed and then we have four that need to be removed but are covered under a warranty. Wylie said okay. Forte said so that’s a credit we’ll get towards this and the $6,160 includes the warranty that we have for those trees. Wylie said you mean you’ve excluded it? Forte said so, we’ve got a credit for those trees, yeah. Rodgers said and it’s still $6,100, even with those credits. Forte said yeah.

Wylie said is the committee responsible for paying for the cost of removal of trees. You said there’s one tree. Forte said no, I think that’s covered under maintenance, right? Smith said the city can do that, Jimi [Turner, Department of Public Works (DPW) supervisor]. Wylie said the city does, yeah, okay. Forte said so, but this does include planting.

Avery said these are what, the smaller trees that haven’t really taken off. Forte said yeah, they’re all trees that are in full sun that haven’t taken off. Avery said yeah. Forte said so we’ve talked, Smith and I, about like with this next round of planting, making sure DPW does an exaggerated effort on watering. But you know how it is. So, yeah. Wylie said I’m just trying to make sure, it’s your own house, but I don’t know. Forte said well, of course, we’ll talk to every resident who’s getting a tree. They would only get one per house, even though some houses have a need for multiple trees. We’ve like a lot, in my presentation, I’ll talk about how some of those larger stretches, we would plan to do more than one, but only one per residence to start. Wylie said okay. Forte said so, yeah.

Quisenberry said is it possible, you said your presentation might be next week or next meeting? Forte said yeah, next meeting. (To Coté), Quisenberry said so in between now and then, would it be possible to check the budget to see if there is any source better than others that we could do a transfer of funds for $2,000, say, to put it into that to cover this? (Coté made an unintelligible comment.) Forte said and we have been looking into grants, but it’s a match. So basically, we would spend the money first, and then they would match it. So, but it’s through DTE, and we’re in the process of trying to get that information. So, yeah. That’s it. Wylie said okay.

Wylie said so, do you want to answer, or do you just want to wait? Forte said no, yeah. Wylie said I’m just giving you, she was just trying to get a feel. Do you want to answer like a feel, like how do we feel? Forte said yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you guys are willing. Avery said right. Yeah. It’s not a huge amount of money. I wouldn’t have a problem with it. Forte said okay. Avery said we’d spend a little bit extra. I mean, we budgeted a certain amount. You know, I’m looking at double or triple what’s budgeted, so I’m okay with a little bit more. Forte said okay, and we didn’t spend last year. So, in theory, we’ve got a surplus, but that’s not really how budgets work. So, that’s why I want it to be fair, because my husband tells me that. So, okay. Wylie said yeah. Avery said, it’s not a whole lot of money. Forte said okay. So, I’ll come with a quote for all that, and I’ll go into way more depth in the next meeting, but that’s the surface level.

Wylie said anybody else have anything negative, positive to comment about this.

No comments.

Wylie said okay. Wylie thanked Forte.

Wylie said anybody else have public comments.

Wylie recognized Robert (unintelligible last name) for a comment. Robert provided his address.

Robert said just curious about the status update on Michigan’s busiest closed street, Miller Road. Wylie said what did you call it. Michigan’s busiest? Robert said Michigan’s busiest closed street. Wylie said oh, closed street.

Robert said okay. Well, we’ve got a lot of semi-trucks through recently, quite a few, a lot of traffic backups, and then just the 75 closing down on M-15. It just, was temporary, some relief, but it’s, I’m sure you’re getting phone calls from others. So, I just wasn’t sure what’s going on with that. Especially with school starting, too. Do we have a plan in place, or just, you know?

Smith said I personally, if council wants to act further, I personally don’t see the advantage of doing anything further than what we’re currently doing. Doing what Independence Township did on Bluegrass, a full closure, has created some issues that I have heard, as far as police and emergency vehicle access. We’ve seen people drive around the cement barriers on the grass, and people are doing whatever they want to do. So, that’s not necessarily the end-all answer, is cement barriers, at least is my point.

Smith said as far as the barricades, we are working with the sheriff, and he is, unfortunately, John [Sergeant John Ashley, Oakland County Sheriff;s Office] couldn’t be here tonight, but he is working on police coverage when possible. The thing that I’ve asked him to especially focus on, as far as police coverage, and he’s agreed to do that, is the weigh master, is so that the trucks are not on that road. They’re beating up that road, which is paved, at least the eastern portion of Miller. We just paved that, what, three years ago, and these semis going down there are just gonna beat it up. So, that’s what I’ve asked him to really focus on. If it’s one or the other, I’d like to have the weigh master out there and capture those.

Robert said because if I’m, that stretch of road is not funded by city or by county or state funds, correct? Smith said correct. Robert said so, has MDOT [Michigan Department of Transportation] said anything like, hey, we’ll kick some money in the can down the road, because that road’s being destroyed? Smtih said that’s a discussion that they said we could have at the end of the construction period. Robert said so, no. Smith said so, I’m not counting on it. Robert said I mean, can we use this as a leverage tool, as a bargaining tool, or something? Because, I mean, in front of the house, like you just said, they paved it. It’s already crumbling on the sides, and then the whole part that hasn’t been paved is starting to look really rough, too. So, that’s all I have to say.

Smith said no, it’s council’s prerogative, if you want to go further. At one point, you had authorized me to go to the second step of putting in cement barriers, if I felt appropriate. I still, to this day, do not feel that’s appropriate and not gonna be advantageous to the city. It’s just gonna create a different set of problems. At the end of August, Labor Day weekend, it’s the latest projection that they will close one or both of the southbound entrances to 75, off of M-15. If they close them, if they close one at a time, they said they will allow the other side that’s inconvenienced to be able to turn left, whatever, whichever direction that is, turn left to get across the freeway and onto the entrance ramp. They’re still not sure at this point whether they’re gonna close them both at the same time and do that, what’s currently an illegal left turn, or they’re just gonna close them both and push everybody down to Sashabaw. They haven’t made that decision yet. I’ve been calling in to all the weekly calls, and there’s definitely some frustration that not more action is being done, but that’s the current status. We’ll see. If they close both, it’s actually going to alleviate some of the, I think, some of the traffic in town, because everybody’s gotta go to Sashabaw. Now, will they still come through town to get to Clarkston Road or Waldon Road and take those across as possible? Avery said well, Google’s not gonna direct them into town because they can’t get access to highways. That’s what I see as one of the biggest problems, besides the local folks trying to cut through. Yeah, everybody who’s coming south on 75 when you get to Grand Blanc, they’re being told to get off at Dixie Highway and follow it into town and through. That’s the fastest way. When it’s not the fastest way, then they’ll stop directing in that way. Smith said yeah.

Wylie said anybody else on council have comments about this.

Wylie I trust your judgment on this. You have, I think, more insight in a lot of what’s going on in the city as far as traffic. Getting the weigh master in, and any kind of police giving tickets, if word gets out that they’re giving tickets, if the weigh master’s giving tickets, those very expensive tickets, that’s the best, our best weapon. Smith I believe so. It’s going to limit, not everybody is gonna go down to Washington, but it’s going to be incentive to not get a ticket is to go down to Washington. That’s backed up too, of course. If you’ve been on that roadway, you know that’s backed up as well, but at least the four-way stop at Washington and Holcomb is working well, and the traffic light at Main Street and Washington is, of course, letting people through in a timely, albeit slow, manner. So, I still think that’s the best opportunity. At the end of this month, things could change, and hopefully for the better. If they change for the worse, then we’ll cross that road, no pun intended, we’ll cross that when we get there.

Rodgers said I do think that initially, when we had this major discussion, and the police were pulling, ticketing people, like I know just coming south on Main Street, looking down there, there were lights there all the time, and there was less traffic, but I did notice over the last week or so that I don’t see those lights as much, and I do see a ton of traffic there. So, I don’t know if they are dispersed to other, you know, it sounds like it’s always been a personnel problem, but they were effective when they were there, but it’s not there anymore. Smith said yes, it doesn’t take long for people to forget, so they start using it again. The action that he took, they wrote 200 tickets in like three days. That was a significant amount. He told me, I can’t sustain this ongoing, so, and I appreciate that. He says, I’ll do it when I have officers available, but that’s not every day by any means, but when I asked him today about the weigh master, he says he does have some, he indicated he has the capacity, so I’m hoping that we can get at least the trucks off the road, and that’s just really upsetting that gravel haulers are coming in and going across there.

Wylie recognized Forte for a comment.

Forte said remind me when Bluegrass was planned to be opened again. Smith said not until the end of I-75 construction. That’s the last I’ve heard is so it would be Thanksgiving time for it.

Wylie said anybody else on council.

No comments.

Wylie said public.

An unidentified man said my biggest concern is when we pull down 75, the entrance lane, I don’t see how that deters traffic more because then people would kind of take them to come through M-15 which gets blocked up on Clarkston Road, so it’s just gonna be even worse down the road. I mean, we can see what happens, but it’s terrible that people wouldn’t, they can talk to me, like this is crazy, there’s a lot of traffic, and it’s (unintelligible), so it’s one thing to have just cars, but to have gravel haulers and semi-trucks, all day, I don’t know what’s going on.

Wylie recognized Cara Catallo for a comment.

Catallo said yeah, it just feels like we’re hostages, and I don’t know if there’s a way to get somebody on council to like also act because I think sitting in on a phone call once a week isn’t the answer, obviously. If they close down 75, you’re gonna just create another addition like of the problem as they’re cutting through the neighborhoods to get to Sashabaw, and maybe someone will take Clarkston, but it’s such a nightmare already that now you’re gonna sort of add to other neighborhoods while not solving his neighborhood’s problem, and it just seems like we need more people to be involved and to be a little bit louder and not just sort of like listening to what they tell us. I just, I feel like there’s gotta be some kind of solution to make sure that we’re at least slightly heard, and I don’t know what that is. Obviously, I don’t know that you can file lawsuits like other communities have because that seems costly, but it’s just the idea that it’s like, oh, well, now they’re gonna close down the entrance to 75 going southbound, which is what all of these people are looking for. It’s just gonna make it a greater nightmare, and I just feel like it’s worthwhile to be proactive or to have some more people interested in calling and paying attention. I also am curious, too, about two of these discussion points. One, the weigh master, I had heard in a different meeting that like police were pulling them over in the township, and I was curious if that means that the township gets that ticket funding. I have no idea about stuff like that, but it was something that I had heard, and then the other aspect that I was a little bit concerned about, oh, god, now it’s gotten, oh, oh, the idea that this is gonna be done in November because I went to a township meeting where many people attended, especially from Bridge Valley, and Mr. Phyle [Chuck Phyle, Independence Township supervisor] was like, well, it might be in the springtime, so the idea that, I think that it’s almost a questionable narrative that it’ll all be taken care of by Thanksgiving because there are maybe just rumors that it’ll be through the spring.

Wylie said I think Smith has even said that it may be the spring. Smith said it may be, and Phyle doesn’t have anything more definitive from MDOT than it is gonna be the spring. MDOT is still saying at this point, Thanksgiving. Catallo said and no offense, but Phyle’s part of the problem here because it, like, closing out Bluegrass, it just created a deeper problem within the City of the Village of Clarkston, so I don’t know.

Wylie said anybody else in the public or council before we move on.

No comments.

Wylie said that was still public comments, so did anybody else have any public comment.

No comments.

Wylie said okay.

Agenda Item #6 – FYI: (Video time mark 0:22:02):

Item number six is FYI. I did not have anything. Anybody have anything FYI? Catallo said I do.

Wylie recognized Catallo for a comment.

Catallo said so I believe that Busk Fest is tomorrow, and that’s a great opportunity, and it’s brought to you by the arts group in Clarkston and also Main Street Clarkston, and it’s a great chance to see lovely music through the town, and I encourage everybody to sort of walk into town in the evening and see the different artists throughout the community. I believe it’s tomorrow. Rodgers said it is tomorrow. Wylie said it is tomorrow. Catallo said it is. Wylie said thank you.

Agenda Item #7 – City Manager’s Report (Video time mark 0:22:39):

• • City Manager Report, August 11, 2025 (page 3/59 of the council packet)
  • 08-01-2025 – Request for Quote for Building and Code Enforcement Services (page 5/59 of the council packet)
  • Assessing Quotes, Number of Parcels (page 8/59 of the council packet)

Wylie said Item #7 is city manager’s report. (To Smith), Wylie said you’re on again.

Smith said so, in the last meeting, I was asked to provide a status update on both the building services request for quote and assessing services request for quote, so I’ll jump forward to those. There are some, and I’ll come back to this, there are some documents attached. The first one is the building services request for quote, so this has been posted on the state Bidnet website, also known as MITN [Michigan inter-governmental Trade Network]. So, this is an opportunity for contractors to look at the specifications and bid on that. So, these specifications align with those that the township is providing us, so we have an apples-to-apples comparison. This opportunity for contractors to quote will remain on Bidnet through the end of September, given the deadline at the end of September, to provide a quote for services. So that’s what’s going on with the building services.

Smith said on the assessing services. So, what we’re seeing here, and I’ll let Coté speak to this, this is a spreadsheet or matrix that Coté’s prepared to show kind of the status of the quotes received so far. It’s still very much in early stage, but go ahead, Coté.

Coté said I’m looking to do anywhere from three to four quotes. Right now, I’m looking at WCA Assessing out of Westland, Michigan. Kim Feigley , she’s the former assessor from Independence Township, and I believe there’s one other source that I’m looking at, (to Smith) what is that? Is it ACS? Smtih said AAS. Coté said AAS. Smith said in addition to the county. Coté said yes. So, I’ve reached out to all of these folks, and I’m just waiting to meet with them and receive their quotes. I did get the WSA [WCA] early this morning, and we filled it in for $24.64 per parcel, $25.87, and $27.16 per parcel. But there’s a lot of meat and potatoes. I wanna meet with these people one-on-one. I wanna see what they can provide. I have the county, I know what the county does. I wanna make sure that we’re getting apples to apples. So, this is gonna be a process, but I hope to have it wrapped up in the next couple months. Any questions?

No questions.

Wylie thanked Coté. Coté said yeah.

Pardee said I have a question based on conversations we’ve had before. So, it was a larger thing. A community in the south had, in fact, signed up for assessment by Independence Township, and then they moved away from that arrangement. And then the next thing I recall hearing was that Springfield had signed up for Independence Township assessing, but it was inside. And I was just curious about what can those people tell us they’ve learned that it might be beneficial. Where are they going? Coté said I’m planning to contact them. Pardee said thank you. Coté said yup.

Smith said we know that Springfield Township’s gone to AAS. Same thing, same thing as Independence Township. Coté said yup. Smith I don’t know where Commerce Township is. Coté said I believe Commerce went with WCA.

Wylie said anybody else and recognized Pardee for an additional comment.

Pardee said in fact, we used to talk about the National Code – (to Smith) – Pardee said when I was trying to fight the blight on North Main, but I don’t see that in here. Smith said it’s a Michigan code now. It’s assumed that their International Maintenance Code is kind of a, is included in the Michigan Code. Pardee said thank you.

(To Smith), Wylie said did you have anything else in your report that you wanted to go into?

Smith said yes, I did want to touch on some of these others because these are some fairly big topics.

So back to the city manager’s report. Ordinance codification. So, it has been 10 years since we last codified our ordinances. And it’s, our charter says that we will do that every 10 years. So, we need to start work on that. I have reached out to a previous city attorney, Tom Ryan, who has, my understanding, he has copies of all those ordinances that we either changed or drafted new. And we’ll need to get all of those captured and then rolled up into the master document, if you will, that we have on our website. So that’s the codification process. And we’d like to get started on that as soon as possible. So, I’ve been in contact with Ryan, and he says he’s going to pull together all the documents that he has. So that’s something we’re starting.

Smith said accessory dwelling units, ADUs, is kind of a new trend in housing. It’s spawned out of a shortage of housing options for people, especially affordable housing. So, more and more people are looking at accessory dwelling units. These could be either attached or detached structures on your property. And it’s a trend that I think we need to consider, very much like we did short-term rentals. We acted on that quickly. I know you can say, well, if it’s not in our ordinance, therefore it’s not allowed. Well, yes, and we could have said that about short-term rentals. But we were seeing trends for short-term rentals that would suggest that you can’t just let the absence of it, the absence of discussion in your ordinance act on its own. You have to specifically state outright that short-term rentals are not allowed in residential districts. And we did that.

Smith said I think ADUs is a very similar thing. What we’re having people call the city and ask, hey, I’m interested in this house that’s for sale over there. It’s got a garage in the backyard. Could I turn that garage into a mother-in-law suite? And my answer is no, you cannot. That’s not allowed currently. And he said, well, do you have that on your, can you show me the ordinance on your books that prohibits that? I said, no, I can’t, because it’s not on our books. It’s not called out.

Smith said so, I brought this up to the planning commission. They are working on it. They’re looking at what other cities have done. I don’t think this needs to be a very elaborate, long-winded ordinance. I think looking at what some other states have done to try to limit this is something that I think we need to act very quickly on. So, like I said, the planning commission is working on that. I guess I bring it up here because if you strongly disagree that this is not time well spent on the planning commission’s part, then please let me know. I just, hearing what other city managers are talking about these days, ADUs is kind of a new trend in the housing industry and it’s something very much like short-term rentals was for a while. It’s something that we need to look at. But again, if you think otherwise, I don’t want the planning commission spending time on this. Forte’s on the planning commission.

Forte said yeah, just to kind of clarify, we’re more towards, and this is my perspective, more towards allowing them, but regulating them. So, an example of what that regulation might look like is for your size lot or your size house, you’re only allowed X amount of square foot in this space. And then you’re not allowed to rent that as a short-term rental or like, there’s a few other things, but – (interrupting Forte). Smith said could be stipulated there must be a blood relative. Forte said yeah, so – (interrupting Forte), Smith said and if you sell, that person’s gonna have to move out because the new buyer of the home is probably not, very small world, I guess it could happen, but it’s not gonna be a blood relative. Forte said yeah. Smith said so, putting restrictions on it is something that Ann Arbor has done, something that – Forte said Traverse City – (continuing), Smith said Traverse City has done very effectively. So, in the same way with short-term rentals, we said, we didn’t say no, we just said no in residential districts. It can only be in a commercial district. This could be a similar option as we don’t say no to ADUs, but we say, we put these regulations on that limit how many we’re gonna really see.

Rodgers said so you know, up until just very recently, within the last five days, I probably would not have had a comment on this. Except for that, my son built a new house, now it’s in Tennessee, where this sort of living has become predominant. And in the house that, like they have alleys between their houses, the house across the alley, had no less than six families living in it. And of course that was against their ordinance. One family in the garage, one family, they had like totally taken down the walls and divided it up into single dwellings. And so I guess in that area, these ADUs, and we were just talking about it this weekend, that’s why it’s kind of coincided that, you know, last week I probably would have said like, well, what’s the big deal if your mother-in-law, I might wanna live with my kids someday, whether or not they want me. But you know it’s more than that. It’s more than just you know somebody that’s living in your house to watch your kids and whatever. It, depending on what parameters you put on. And it was like quite a few homes in the neighborhood that had done this. A lot of garages being used for cousins. And then what happens is then all of those people need a place to park. And so, then they’re all spilling out onto the roads and parking in front of their houses and all of that kind of stuff. So, it’s a bigger problem when you really look into it than on the surface what you would think.

Forte said what we’ve kept seeing and planning is that people are kind of doing it under the radar right now. And I can name probably three or four that I know of and are existing. So that’s why we’re kind of like, how do we go about this? Like, so, that’s how this kind of all got prompted. Plus there’s a, I think a house on Holcomb is looking to do it. So that was like our, why we got started.

Quisenberry said but as it stands now, they can’t. There’s nothing to prevent it. Avery said well, no. Forte said the garage is literally defined as only storage for like vehicles and stuff like that. Like that’s part of our definition in our ordinance.

Wylie said I think Gerry’s [Gerald Fisher, city attorney] got something to add.

Fisher said yeah, two things. Number one is this has a lot of not only factual complications, but there are a lot of legal complications, and that relate to definition of family and things of that nature that have been litigated over years. And so, I would suggest that I weigh in on it a little bit when you start working on it. The other part to answer your question is that modern zoning ordinances are all permissive. In other words, you can only do something if the ordinance allows you to do it. And if the ordinance is silent, it’s prohibited. It’s just by implicitly. And so here you’ve got a single-family district. So, you have you know a principal structure with a single family in it. And then you have accessory buildings that, and so what’s the definition of accessory? I’m sure it’s defined in the ordinance, but it isn’t having additional families there. And so that has to be addressed as part of the discussion. Bloomfield Township just had a case, I think it was in the Supreme Court, on, and it may have been short-term rentals. I don’t remember for sure, but somebody said, well, you don’t prohibit it. And it went up to the court and the court said, no, no, no, this is a permissive ordinance. And if it’s not permitted, it’s prohibited. So, there’s some good, historically it was the other way around, but now for the last 50 years, it’s been permissive.

Quisenberry said so, if we don’t address it, we can prevent it from happening. Fisher said yes, yes. But if you think that it’s a good public policy to allow it in some cases, and that it’s happening anyway, and you want to regulate it, then you want to think about it I suppose. Wylie said thank you.

Wylie said anybody else on council want to weigh in right now?

No comments.

Wyiie said public.

Wylie recognized Catallo for a comment.

Catallo said well, I went to the planning commission meeting and had a totally different reading of what Forte just stated, that the planning commission thinks it’s okay and they just want to regulate the numbers. I didn’t feel like that decision had been made. So, I think maybe you’re speaking for yourself. I also, a cursory glance at our ordinances, for me, it seemed as though it wasn’t allowed. And that’s part of why I actually brought this up, because if you look at the definition between R1 and R2, it seems sort of clear. R1 is residential single family, and R2 means multiple, like an apartment building or something like that. And the house on Holcomb in question is R1. So, for me, it just didn’t seem quite as like, well, I don’t know, I guess we can do it. It seemed like, no, we can’t do it. And as somebody who has spent way too much time in this community, because I grew up here, I just remember that it hasn’t been allowed. And I can think of one that maybe sort of squeaked through the shade of darkness, but others I think maybe were grandfathered in or were originally two or three family dwellings. And as the years have changed, a lot of the two-family dwellings have become single family. And that’s just something that has happened. And maybe it would have been better if they didn’t, and there would have been multifamily homes. But for me, I think it’s R1 or R2. So, the idea that it’s like, golly, we don’t have anything in our books, makes me think like maybe you gotta read our books a little more clearly, because again, I took a cursory glance at best online, and it seemed fairly clear to me. And again, not to pick on the people who want to put an apartment in their garage, that’s great. My thought is just like, if that’s a thing that we do now, then it should be allowed to everybody, not that we look the other way for this one particular resident or another. But yeah, I don’t feel like the community is like, sure, why not? We’ll just regulate it, because parking is a huge issue that will come from this. And I just hope that we can take a look at our ordinances, maybe Mr. Fisher will do that. But yeah, like I just feel like there is sort of some clarity if you look for it.

Wylie said thank you. Anybody else?

No comments.

Wylie said so, we’re still actually on city manager’s report. Smith said sorry, I have a lot to cover here.

Smith said so, road striping, that actually started today. Not that we need more congestion in town, but this is what their availability was. So, PK Contracting has been striping some of our roads (unintelligible).

Smith said there are Asian bittersweet vines, if you’ve ever had to deal with this, you realize how aggressive these plants are. We have some at the south end of Depot Park that are just taking over. I’m currently working with Blue Heron and some others to get some cost estimates, because this is really just amazing, these vines. And they’re about five to six feet tall. You can’t walk in there. It’s just solid vines. And so, we’re gonna have to get some aggressive clearing equipment to make that happen.

Smith said lastly, along the lines of the ordinance that I asked about the planning commission working on, I had a complaint today about e-bikes. And e-bikes on the sidewalks in particular. These e-bikes can go up to 30 miles an hour, and they’re very quiet. And this resident was complaining that she was just nipped right by her shoulder. And if she had just moved over an inch, she probably would have gotten knocked down. So, I think it is something that we need to watch, and possibly here again consider something. This is a technological change. These e-bikes, the cost has come down. They used to be pretty expensive, but now they’re not so much. People, even kids are getting them, and they’re riding them on the sidewalks. Now granted, we don’t have places on our roadway for bikes. But do we want the e-bikes that like I say can go like a single 30 miles an hour very silently, quietly? Some people announce they’re coming up as they’re coming up behind you as you walk. Others don’t, and they just startle people and maybe even hit somebody. So, I’m just raising that up as potentially another something else that we may need to have the planning commission look at.

Wylie said I would include e-scooters in that also. Maybe it’s worse. Smith said yeah, e-scooters. Wylie said really young kids with those. Smith said right.

Wylie said anything else before we move on from city manager’s report.

No comments.

Wylie thanked Smith.

Wylie said so, sheriff’s report. What, I’m sorry.

Moon said I would like to say that not only e-bikes. Three times in the last two weeks, I’ve seen small motorcycles on the sidewalk. These were not e-bikes. These were little motorcycles, gas-powered motorcycles. Wylie said gas-powered. Moon said and going very fast. Wylie said kids. I guess it doesn’t matter. Moon said teenagers. They’re loud. Quisenberry said senior citizens. Moon said they’re loud. Those are not e-bikes. Those are very loud. They are loud. But those of us who have hearing deficits may still not hear them. I don’t have my hearing aids in. Wylie said right, so really anything on the sidewalk is, anything motorized vehicle on the sidewalk is a problem.

Agenda Item #8 – Oakland County Sheriff’s Report (Video time mark 0:43:05):

• • Oakland County Sheriff Department Cumulative Monthly Report for August 2025 (page 9/59 of the council packet)

Wylie said okay, we are on Item #8, sheriff’s report for July. As Smith has mentioned, the sergeant’s not here today. Anybody have any questions or comments on the report?

Quisenberry said I have a question that Smith might be able to answer. I’m really happy about the traffic citations, 293 for July. But I’m looking down at station, calls for service was way up as well. Is increase in calls for service tied to the number of citations? What brought that way up? Smith said that’s something I’ll have to ask Sergeant Ashley. I was kind of curious about that as well. That is not a sum of the totals involved, because not everything is a call for service. Quisenberry said correct. Smith said if the officers just see a violation happening, then they’ll act on it. But a call for service, it should be just that. Somebody calling and saying – Quisenberry said exactly – (continuing), Smith said I want to call and report an issue.

Avery said yeah, my understanding was, and I think we had this discussion on it, it may not be with the same deputy, but any time they come into town, they consider that a call for service. Doesn’t matter if somebody actually, legitimately called, they’re just coming into town, and they record that as a call for service. They’re not getting 335 calls from residents from the city. It’s just not. It’s only a third of our residents. They go crazy on it. So. Wylie said it’s me 10 times a day. Avery said yeah. Yeah, they got you. Smith said but that’s, all these numbers above actually add up to less than 335, so I’m not sure. I’ll have to ask Sergeant Ashley for that.

(To Coté), Wylie said do you have something to add? Coté said yeah, I do. I can attest. They are writing tickets because my July court revenue was over $5,000. You guys will recall that our budget for district court revenue was three grand for this year. Wylie said okay. Coté said so they are writing it, and by the way, we get 33% of that revenue.

Forte said okay, let’s keep that street open and keep taking it in. Wylie said that’s like a robber’s face. Avery said I’d rather we didn’t, but I mean, I’m glad. I mean, obviously, the majority of them came because they sat on the road and just decided to write a bunch of tickets that day, but generally speaking, it’s pretty rare that you see the sheriffs with somebody pulled over. Forte said yeah. Avery said they don’t like to write tickets, I don’t think.

Wylie said anything else on sheriff’s reports from anybody here.

No comments.

Agenda Item #9 – Consent Agenda (Video time mark 0:45:38):

• • 07-14-2025 – Final Minutes, Regular City Council Meeting (page 10/59 of the council packet)
  • 07-28-2025 – Draft Minutes, Regular City Council Meeting (page 12/59 of the council packet)
  • 08-11-2025 – Treasurer’s Report (page 14/59 of the council packet)
  • 08-07-2025 – Check Disbursement Report, 07-01-2025 – 07-31-2025 (page 15/59 of the council packet)

 Wylie said okay, we are on Item #9, which is the consent agenda, which includes final minutes for the July 14, 2025, regular meeting, draft minutes for the July 28th regular meeting, treasurer’s report for July [sic – should be August] 11, 2025. And I will need a motion and a second to accept the consent agenda.

Motion by Quisenberry; second Rodgers.

Wylie said any discussion from council.

No discussion.

Wylie said any discussion from the public.

No discussion.

Motion to accept the consent agenda passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said the consent agenda is approved.

Agenda Item #10, Unfinished Business (Video time mark 0:46:15):

Wylie said Item #10 is unfinished business, and we have none.

Agenda Item #11, New Business (Video time mark 0:46:20):

Wylie said Item #11 is new business.

Item #11A – Discussion: Recap of Historic District Commission CoA’s for Q2 2025 (Video time mark 0:46:23)

• • Clarkston Historic District Summary of CoAs [Certificates of Appropriateness] for 2025 (page 25/59 of the council packet)

Wylie said and new business A is Discussion – Recap of the Historic District Commission Certificate of Appropriateness for second quarter, 2025. And we have Dr. Mike Moon, and I have to get started. Do you guys appoint or vote for a new head of the Historic District? Chair, I guess. Moon said the new chair as of the July meeting is Lisa Patercsak. Wylie said okay, and to say again, we are still short of a member. No, she’s not here. Wylie said okay, thank you. Moon said yes, we are short one member. So, if any of you know of someone who might be interested, who’s interested in architecture, historic, particularly historic preservation, we’d like to welcome you. Wylie said thank you.

Michael Moon:

Moon said okay, the last time I was here, if you recall, we actually dealt with, this is the first quarter report. We actually dealt with a couple of cases that were in the second quarter. I’m going to go back and quickly recap those. This would be beginning April 5^th.

43 West Washington. This was reconstruction of pergola in the backyard, north elevation of the house. And this was done in a special meeting in order to get this done quickly for the SCAMP tour that they were preparing for.

Next is on that same date and that same special meeting, 63 West Washington was for a roof replacement of the leaky roof. Also on that special meeting was, again, an issue of the front porch reconstruction that needed to be done quickly to be prepared for the SCAMP report [tour]. And if you notice, we did issue a COA and then we revised that COA because in the process of doing that restoration, they found that it was more extensive. The damage was more extensive than what they could tell just from looking at the exterior. So, when they started lifting off the damaged wood planks of the porch, they found that there was more extensive damage. And so, we revisited the issue at the regular meeting and issued a revised report, allowing them to do more work than what we originally did.

Okay, and we go to April 30th, 29 South Holcomb. I believe we did broach that subject at the meeting. And this is the dismantling of the fence on the south elevation with replacing a new fence with the council member, Mr. Quisenberry.

Okay, next is May 19^th. This is 9 North Holcomb, one of the few Tudor style houses in the district. And this was for replacement of the cement front porch with the landing and steps, including an extension around to the north side of the east elevation with tuckpointing of the foundation. And this was simply a deterioration of that cement front porch and steps with cracks that allowed water to flow into the basement. So, all of that needed to be replaced, but it was replaced with like materials. And I have to commend the owner and the contractor for aging the cement that they put back in so it doesn’t look like brand new cement. It looks like the old cement. Very nice attention to detail there.

Okay, next, also May 19^th. This is 20 to 26 South Main, one of the largest buildings in the business district and the oldest building in this business district. The original building, especially that to the north side, is 1842. We don’t know the exact date of the south end because that was moved from the northeast corner of Main and Washington where now stands the Masonic Temple. That was a frame Greek Revival home there that was moved and butted up against the original house on South Main to form this large building which was then a hotel. So, the owner then had more hotel rooms. Okay, so the application in this case was multipartite and a COA was granted.

I’ll go through this. Their COA was granted first for replacing siding with either wood clapboard or Hardie board slash Hardie plank. And this was depending on the condition of the wood siding, wood clapboard that was in place. When they get into it and start removing it. Now, what everyone would prefer is if they could just replace the damaged wood clapboards with new and leave the old ones if they are not damaged. But even from the report evaluation by the Oakland County Preservation Architect, Rick Campbell, could not tell the status of all the clapboards. And in working with the owner, we came to this agreement. We’ll take off, they will take off the clapboards. They’ll see what is damaged. If there is enough good material present, that will go back on and just the damaged ones will be replaced. If it comes to a point that looks like there’s just too much damage, then it will be replaced with Hardie board. We have done this before, particularly with the southern panels. That worked out pretty nice.

Moon recognized Forte for a comment. Forte said do you know when they’ll get started on this project. Moon said I thought that they were planning to get started on that this summer, but I don’t know yet. It hasn’t happened yet. And that takes us on to the next part. Well, actually, I should say that another part that was granted of that application that was granted to COA was to replace four non-original wood doors, again, with new wood doors, all on the west elevation. And again, this was also in keeping with the evaluation by Rick Campbell.

Moon said now, there are other parts to that application that in agreement with the owner, we have held open until she can evaluate with her designer and with her carpenters to see what she can do. She’s on the, this property is on the agenda for tomorrow night’s meeting, and I hope maybe this will be resolved. If you would like to know, I think everyone is probably familiar with this building and it has corner entrances, kind of an unusual architectural feature of these corner entrances. Well, those were not original. Those were put on as closely as we could tell the early to mid-1970s. Now, in his report, the Oakland County architect, Ron Campbell, stated that it could be agreeable to remove those and return it back to its original appearance. And we do have plenty of photos as to what that looked like. Now, even if they’re kept, there is a lot of work that needs to be done on them because those corner entrances are quite deteriorated. And I could tell that simply, even before we had the architect come and look at them, there’s a rot of wood all over those corner entrances. So anyway, the point of that May meeting, the owner was questioning, going over that with her designer, her carpenters, to see if they could, within their budget, accomplish this. And again, we don’t know nothing. That is still being held open to see what happens with that. Forte said okay.

Moon said okay. Let’s see. The next case is July 3^rd, 24 South Holcomb. And this is simply to replace non-original windows. These were mainly vinyl windows, some aluminum that had been replaced at some point in time, probably the 80s, 90s. And so, they are replacing those replacement windows. There would be also some individual wood elements that would be replaced like for like, due to rotting of the wood, mostly in conjunction with potential windows. But all wood trim would remain wood trim of the same dimensions.

Okay, the next case is July 3^rd, 380 Depot Road. That’s the 1980s construction house across the street and to the west. They needed more space for a larger family and were applying for addition to the west elevation whereas currently there is an open porch.

Okay, next case is also July 3^rd, 89 South Main. And this is, again, for replacement of windows that have rotted sills and such. These are at the back of the structure, the non-historic part of the house. So those are also, all of those received certificates.

Now, let’s see, July 11^th, 206 North Main. This is to replace, again, damaged windows. These are all vinyl windows. The, essentially all of the windows were in serious disrepair. The owners showed us photos of essentially every single window. They were broken seals, cracks in the windows. Very, very serious damage.

Next, also July 11^th is 75 South Holcomb. This is an application for a second-floor addition to a non-historic 1980s garage. This is well behind the house on the alley. So, what was looked at very closely was design and massing to make sure that those particular issues were taken into account with respect to the historic part of the house. Therefore, for example, design elements would not be Greek Revival, as is the historic house, and the massing would be such that it would not be larger than the historic house.

Okay, next is July 11^th, also 24 South Holcomb. This is the little house that we dealt with earlier. They came back because they needed to replace the garage door, which was damaged, and also in doing so, they could open the garage up so it would be more useful for current use as a two-car garage. The garage was always large enough for a two-car garage, but only a single car door was placed there originally. So, they went with the two-car.

Wylie thanked Moon.

Wylie said any questions from council, or comments from council.

No comments.

Wylie said from the public.

No comments.

Wylie said thank you very much. We appreciate the report.

Item#11B – Discussion: Main Street America Trademark Sublicense Agreement (Video time mark 1:02:13):

• • Resolution – Main Street America Trademark Sublicense Agreement (page 31/59 of the council packet)
  • Trademark Sublicense Agreement (page 32/59 of the council packet)
  • Exhibit A – Brand Guidelines (page 38/59 of the council packet)

Wylie said #11B is Resolution, Main Street America Trademark Sublicense Agreement.

(Wylie read the resolution.)

Wylie said I’ll need someone to resolve and then a second support on this.

Resolution by Wylie; second Forte.

Wylie said is there discussion from council.

No comments.

Wylie said questions or comments from the public? Okay.

Pardee said I have a question. Wylie said yes. Pardee said when will we use this symbol. Smith said in advertisements, if we were, if the Main Street Clarkston organization was promoting some program, we might use, if it was also part of the Main Street America program, we might want to use their logo in the advertisements.

Wylie said anybody else.

Rodgers said is there a reason why we wouldn’t want to use it if they were sponsoring it? Smith said no. No, it just adds support to what Main Street Clarkston is trying to do. So, we’d like to use that, but you have to sign this agreement to allow us to use it. Wylie said sounds like they put a lot of time and money into designing the logo, and to come up with their statements, and they want to make sure it’s all used appropriately. I was really actually impressed when I looked it over.

Wylie said anything else.

No comments.

Wylie said then we need a roll call.

Avery, Casey, Forte, Quisenberry, Rodgers, and Wylie voted yes.

Wylie said and the resolution is adopted. Thank you.

Item #11C – Resolution: 60-Month Agreement for Office Phone Service (Video time mark 1:04:34):

• • Resolution – 60-Month Agreement for Office Phone Service (page 46/59 of the council packet)
  • City Phone Analysis (page 47/59 of the council packet)
  • Comcast Business Bill, Paid 07-14-2025 (page 48/59 of the council packet)
  • FirstComm Quote (page 49/59 of the council packet)
  • Net2Phone Quote (page 50/59 of the council packet)
  • Net2Phone Equipment Rental Agreement – 60 Month Service Commitment (page 52/59 of the council packet)
  • Net2Phone Commitment Agreement – 60 Months (page 56/59 of the council packet)

Wylie said the next item on our agenda is #11C. This is a Resolution – 60-month Agreement for Office Phone Service.

(Wylie read the resolution.)

Wylie said I’ll need somebody to resolve and then support.

Resolution by Avery; second Forte.

Wylie said and discussion or comments from council.

No comments.

Wylie said from the public.

Rodgers said I do have a question. Wylie said yes.

Rodgers said so, if our internet stays with Comcast, like they’re all about bundling all the time, does that, like, do we, are we gonna pay less to Comcast, I’m assuming, if we’re gonna pay another service for the phones? Smith said absolutely. Right. Rodgers said okay. Smith said so, the Comcast bill will come down. Now, do we lose the bundling price with Comcast? I guess that’s possible. We’ll have to monitor it.

Rodgers said so, what would be the, like, net price? Like, if we drop Comcast for everything but internet and go with, I don’t know, I’ve never heard of Net2Phone, but if we go with them, then together, internet, phone, what do we have compared to what we have now? Smith said well, I don’t know if Comcast is gonna raise the rate or not on the internet service alone, but assuming that they don’t, that they leave it as is, what this comparison is showing is that we will have almost a $2,500 a year savings with Net2Phone over Comcast. Now, if they, if Comcast raises it up, we have to look totality, to your point, looking at it in totality, we would have to reassess that, but right now, assuming the internet service stays unchanged, it would be almost a $2,500 a year savings using Net2Phone. Coté, we haven’t heard anything from Comcast yet. Coté said no.

Rodgers said I mean, do you think that’s something that we – Coté said I don’t think that’s gonna change.

Rodgers said but right now, the price, is that just for internet that we get from Comcast? Coté said yeah, we have two bills. One is $485 a month, and that’s for the internet, Office 365, and the other one was, what is it, $384 up there? Smith said right, $384. Coté said and that was just for the phones. So, I don’t think Comcast will raise that. Rodgers said so, we didn’t have a bundle. We didn’t get those prices because we were – Coté said no. Smith said right. We had a separate bill to Coté’s point for just internet and Office 365. You say, well, internet, that’s pretty expensive, but we get our Office 365 software through Comcast, so whenever there’s updates, they just automatically flow through. It’s really the recommended approach for businesses.

Wylie said any other questions or comments from council.

No comments.

Wylie said from the public.

Wylie recognized Pardee for a comment.

Pardee said this is for six handsets. Coté said seven. Pardee said seven handsets that are on desks. Coté said yes. Pardee said okay.

Wylie said anything else.

No comments.

(To Smith), Wylie said we need a roll call again.

Forte, Casey, Avery, Quisenberry, Rodgers, and Wylie voted yes.

Wylie said Jones is absent. The resolution is adopted. Thank you.

Agenda Item #12, Adjourn Meeting (Video time mark 1:08:57):

Wylie said and we’re at Item #12, adjourn the meeting. Before we adjourn, I did see that the new HDC [Historic District Commission] chair came in. (To Patercsak), Wylie said do you just want to say hi? [Patercsak waved.] Wylie said Patercsak’s the new HDC chair. Thank you.

Wylie said so, I need a motion.

Wylie said did you want to say anything? (Patercsak made an unintelligible comment.) Wylie said yeah. Okay.

Wylie said I need a motion to adjourn the meeting.

Motion by Rodgers; second Quisenberry.

Motion to adjourn passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said we are adjourned at 8:09. Thank you very much, everybody.

Resources:

• • Link to video recording here
  • 08-11-2025 – city council packet