June 9, 2025 City Council Meeting

Introduction:

Links to the video recording and the council packet are at the bottom of this post. Please note any errors or omissions in the comments. Anything noted in brackets was inserted by Clarkston Sunshine.

Agenda Item #1, Call to Order (video time mark 0:00:00):

Sue Wylie said at 7:00, I’m going to call the meeting to order.

Agenda Item #2, Pledge of Allegiance (video time mark 0:00:02):

Wylie said if everybody would please rise for the pledge of allegiance.

(Pledge said.)

Wylie said thank you.

Agenda Item #3, Roll Call (video time mark 0:00:28):

Wylie said Item #3 is a roll call. (To Jonathan Smith, city manager), Wylie said if you would take the roll call, please. Smith said yes.

Sue Wylie, Laura Rodgers, Al Avery, Amanda Forte, Erica Jones, and Ted Quisenberry were present.

Gary Casey was absent.

Wylie said thank you.

Agenda Item #4, Approval of Agenda – Motion (video time mark 0:00:47):

Wylie said and Item #4 is approval of the agenda. I’ll need a motion and then a second to approve the agenda as presented.

Motion by Jones; second Rodgers.

Wylie said any discussion from council.

No discussion.

Wylie said anything from the public.

No discussion.

Motion to approve the agenda passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said the agenda is approved.

Agenda Item #5, Public Comments (video time mark 0:01:09):

[Though public comments can sometimes irritate the city council, there is value to both the council and the public in hearing them. While they can’t eliminate public comments entirely without violating the Open Meetings Act, your city council has occasionally decided not to acknowledge public comments during a city council meeting unless the person submitting the comments also appears at the meeting (in-person or electronically) to personally read them. In the past, members of the public have been cut off for exceeding the city council’s arbitrary three-minute time limit (it’s arbitrary because no time limits are required by the Open Meetings Act).]

[If your public comments were submitted to the council but not read, or if you tried to make public comments but your comments were cut short, please email them to clarkstonsunshine@gmail.com and I will include them in my informal meeting summaries either under public comments or under the specific agenda item that you want to speak to.]

Wylie said Item #5 is public comments.

(Wylie read the rules for public comments.)

Wylie said would anybody like to make a public comment.

Wylie recognized Chet Pardee for a public comment.

Pardee thanked Wylie and provided his name and address.

Chet Pardee:

Who’s to blame? The city is at a crossroad, financial and moral.

The city manager and city council members have ignored my past recommendations to replace a portion of the expiring two general obligation bonds for the much smaller millage. Greg [Coté, city treasurer] had suggested two and a half to three mills, which were significantly less than the expiring bonds for reducing the taxes to residents. The city manager and city council prefer to renege on the library millage commitment, increasing residents’ taxes by .691 mills, and give all city employees salary increases.

Independence Township overbilled the city for police and fire services, and the city paid the incorrect invoices for seven years until Richard Bisio found the error. The overpayment total was $171,000. Independence Township repaid $96,000 but refused to pay the $84,000 balance. How will the Bisio monies be spent? Why does the city want to increase the dependence on Independence Township given these recent circumstances?

I recall being at the angry end of a councilman’s finger in my first council meeting in 2016 when I related that I had asked Jim Tedder if the state could help with funds for what looked like a $600,000 expansion for DPW facilities. Tedder was holding an open house in Independence Township offices. Pat Kittle said he could not approach the city on cooperation. The city would have to approach him. I later saw an email exchange chastising Pat Kittle for speaking with me. Welcome to the City of the Village of Clarkston, Chet.

Someone took me aside and explained the relationship between the city and Independence Township was not always cordial. A month ago, I offered to meet separately with each council person to explain what the compensation study really said. Crickets.

I do not think any official wants really to understand. At the public hearing, the city manager played his last card. I will resign if I don’t get my requested increase.

I hope council members are comfortable in their chairs, which were never approved for purchase. The repair cost of the broken chair arm is in the proposed budget. However, the broken chair arm is on the side.

Wylie thanked Pardee. Pardee said you’re welcome.

Wylie said anybody else with a public comment.

Wylie recognized Rodgers for a comment.

Rodgers said yes, I have one slight comment. In regards to the offering that Mr. Pardee gave us for explaining to us some things, that email unfortunately came in on a Friday night at 7:20, and the offer was for that weekend. So, at that point, I did not see that email until Sunday when I started looking at it again. And I suspect that most of us up here, 5:20 or 7:20 on a Friday night is really after hours for the city. And so, weekends are usually planned by then. So, I’m sure that that was in our thoughts. Pardee thanked Rodgers.

Wylie recognized Quisenberry for a comment.

Quisenberry said I wasn’t going to, but I’ll kind of piggyback on councilwoman Rodgers’s comments about the invitation that we had to meet with you. And as I mentioned before, I took offense with it because there was an implication that we didn’t understand what that study was all about. I understood exactly what it was about. I knew what it was. I didn’t need to meet with you to hear your explanation because I know what your explanation is. And we differ on it. But to sit there and imply that because there’s a difference of opinion, and that’s the reason why we don’t understand what that is all about, I take exception with that. I do understand what it is. I will publicly state that my thought on the survey, the salary survey, is pretty much, I don’t really have any thought on it whatsoever. I think it was flawed from the beginning. And I put no credence to a decision that I will make regarding the salaries. The decision I make has nothing at all to do with what was written in that salary report. It’s based on subsequent information and a lot of information besides just what the population of a community is to be commensurate with what the salary is. So, I didn’t take you up on your offer because I understand what it’s all about. Wylie and Pardee thanked Quisenberry.

Wylie said anybody else with public comments.

No comments.

Agenda Item #6 – FYI: (video time mark 0:07:12):

Wylie said move on to Item #6, which is FYI.

Item #6A – 2025 Clarkston Buskfest Flyer (page 3/52 of the council packet; video time mark 0:07:18):

Wylie said and we have a notification about the 2025 Clarkson Buskfest. It’s Tuesdays, and there’s three dates, June 10th, July 8th, August 12th. It says enjoy a night of music up and down Main Street. It’s from 6:00 to 9:00 p.m. Family-friendly event, free to attend, voluntary donations encouraged. And busking is the activity of playing music in the street or another public place for voluntary donations. And I don’t think it has it here, but I must have seen it somewhere else that there are maybe four performers tomorrow. And they’re, unless I’m missing it right, maybe I saw it on here, but they’re scheduled to be performing several places tomorrow night.

Item #6B – 2025 Concert in the Park Flyer (page 4/52 of the council packet; video time mark 0:08:07):

Wylie said also, FYI, we’ve got the Clarkson Area Chamber of Commerce will be holding the annual concerts in the park. The dates and the musicians are Friday, June 20th. And they have both, and each, this goes from 6:00 to 9:00. They will have local talent and the headliner each one of these nights, Friday, June 27th, Friday, July 11th, and Friday, July 18th. And of course, that’s at Depot Park.

Wylie said does anybody have anything else for FYI.

No comments.

Agenda Item #7 – City Manager’s Report (video time mark 0:08:41):

• • June 9, 2025, City Manager Report (page 5/52 of the council packet)

Wylie said Item #7 is the city manager’s report, which is included in our packet. (To Smith), Wylie said did you want to add anything about the four-way stop at Holcomb and Washington, road stripping quote, or the beaver update.

Smith said just to say, I meant to say road striping, not road stripping. (Laughter.) Wylie said oh, OK. And I just read it the way it said.

(To Smith), Rodgers said somebody asked me if I could tell them if we’re replacing those memorial trees that got chewed down by the beavers. Smith said we are. Rodgers said OK. Smith said it’s in process. Rodgers said that’s what I thought.

Wylie I’m really surprised about what you said about the beavers, that no new trees have been – Smith said right – (continuing), Wylie said because they’re still around, because we see them in my yard. Smith said I don’t know if they’re still around, but they haven’t been building up the dam. Jimi [Turner, DPW supervisor] broke up a section of the dam, and water’s flowing now. Wylie said OK. Smith said the Mill race is about almost two feet lower than it was. Wylie said that’s great. Smith said at the peak. So, now we have erosion problems, but that’s another set of problems. Wylie said but aren’t they, isn’t, I think Emily Duthinh said that if they hear running water, they’ll try to rebuild that dam. Smith said yes. Wylie said but they haven’t started yet. OK. All right, well, maybe we got the primary culprits. Primary, yeah, primary culprits.

Wylie said anything else on, any questions on, or comments on city manager’s report.

No comments or questions.

Wylie said OK.

Agenda Item #8 – Consent Agenda (video time mark 0:10:05):

• • 05-12-2025 Regular City Council Meeting Minutes (page 6/52 of the council packet)
  • 05-27-2025 Regular City Council Meeting Minutes (page 8/52 of the council packet)
  • 06-09-2025 Treasurer’s Report (page 10/52 of the council packet)
  • 06-04-2025 Check Disbursement Report for the Period 05-01-2025 – 05-31-2025 (page 11/52 of the council packet)

Wylie said Item #8 is consent agenda. This includes the final minutes of the May 12, 2025, regular meeting, draft minutes of the May 27 regular meeting, and the treasurer’s report from June 9, 2025. And I will need a motion and a second to accept the consent agenda as presented.

Motion by Jones; second Forte.

Wylie said any discussion or comments from council.

No comments.

Wylie said questions or comments from the public.

No comments.

Motion to accept the consent agenda passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said the consent agenda is approved.

Agenda Item #9, Unfinished Business (video time mark 0:10:43):

Wylie said Item #9 is unfinished business, and there is none.

Agenda Item #10, New Business (video time mark 0:10:48):

Wylie said Item #10, new business.

Item #10A – Resolution – City Social District Update (video time mark 0:10:49)

• • Resolution – Social District Update (page 20/52 of the council packet)
  • Social District Permit Information (page 21/52 of the council packet)
  • Social District Permit Application (page 22/52 of the council packet)
  • Local Government Unit Approval for Social District Permit (page 23/52 of the council packet)
  • City of the Village of Clarkston Social District, Management and Maintenance Plan (page 24/52 of the council packet)
  • Social District Map (page 25/52 of the council packet)

Wylie said Item #10A is a resolution, city social district update. And we have a resolution.

(Wylie read the resolution.)

Wylie said so, before we have any discussion, I would like to have somebody make the resolution and a second.

Resolution by Forte; second Quisenberry.

Wylie said any discussion from council members or comments.

No comments.

Wylie said questions or comments from the public.

No comments.

Wylie said OK, then we need to hold a vote. (To Smith), Wylie said if you would do a roll call.

Avery, Forte, Jones, Quisenberry, Rodgers, and Wylie voted yes.

Wylie said so, the motion is adopted. Thank you.

Item #10B – Resolution – City Attorney Replacement (video time mark 0:12:51)

• • Resolution – City Attorney Replacement Recommendation (page 26/52 of the council packet)
  • 01-27-2025 Resignation Letter, Thomas J. Ryan (page 27/52 of the council packet)
  • 02-28-2025 – Fisher Consulting, Request for Consideration (page 28/52 of the council packet)
  • Biography, Gerald A. Fisher (page 30/52 of the council packet)
  • Government Client List, Gerald A. Fisher (page 40/52 of the council packet)
  • 04-15-2025, Fee Schedule, Gerald A. Fisher and Kristen Kolb (page 42/52 of the council packet)
  • Biography, Kristen Kolb (page 43/52 of the council packet)

Wylie said next we have, oh, shoot, I can’t find my pages. We have a resolution, city attorney replacement.

(Wylie read the resolution.)

Wylie said and I imagine there’s going to be some discussion, but if we could have somebody make the resolution and a second and then we can get into any discussion.

Resolution by Jones; second Avery.

Wylie said OK. I don’t know if Avery or Quisenberry, did you Quisenberry? Did you? Avery said Avery was there.

Avery said yeah, so consistent with what the resolution stated, we met individually with each of the attorneys that were interested. It felt, at least to me, I’m speaking for myself, that Gerald Fisher and Kristen Kolb are more than qualified to step into Tom’s [Ryan’s, city attorney] shoes. And one of the things that I thought was important was that Fisher is a little older and you know, at some point, he’ll retire too, but Kolb was younger and seemed to be very qualified. So, when that happens, when Fisher retires, I feel confident that Kolb will be more than capable of stepping in if that’s how we want to go with that. And for me, that was somewhat important because I wanted to keep continuity here if we could. And I felt like they could do that for us. And I felt that, again, we talked about various situations that we’ve been experiencing the last few years in the city and both of them seem more than capable of handling what Ryan was doing, so. Wylie said OK.

Jones said no, I agree with Avery. I think it’ll be a fairly smooth transition. I think that budget-wise, it’s gonna be a great fit. I also think that in terms of some of the specific things that we were looking for, not only were they already familiar with some of those situations, they had already kind of, you know, game plan and strategized on it. So, I think that we’ve made the right choice. I’m excited to see them come on.

Wylie said anybody else have any comments or questions.

Wylie recognized Forte for a comment.

Forte said so, there are, he’s a current, he’s a city attorney for the City of Lake Angelus. Avery said yep. Wylie said he, he’s been doing that for quite a while, hasn’t he? Avery said yeah, yeah. Wylie said OK. Avery said which I believe is a smaller number. Wylie said yeah, less than 300. The number was in the, you know, the PDF. Smith said I thought it was around 3-400 or something. Wylie said OK. Forte said our residents can be pretty good teachers. Avery said yeah. Quisenberry said not all of them. Forte said who knows how to deal with those lawyers.

Rodgers said did those two have any experience like with, like the FOIA thing. I know that we have somebody special for that. Avery said yes, that was very important. Yeah, with everybody that we interviewed, we brought up the fact that, you know, FOIA was an important, Open Meetings Act, those sort of things were things that we needed help with through the last few years, and both of them were very comfortable. Well, all of them were, to some extent. They were much stronger than the other two, I thought, that those particular items, so. Yeah.

Wylie said I looked through the list of, I think it was just Fisher’s cases that were listed there, and I finally, I got tired of reading because the list went on and on, and I was kind of looking for one specific case, and I didn’t see it, but it’s impressive. Avery said yes. Wylie said what he’s done is very impressive. Avery said right, and he’s local. I mean, he doesn’t live in the city, per se, but he’s just on the outside of the city, very familiar with everything around here, which, again, was helpful because Anne [Seurynck, Foster Swift] was from Grand Rapids, I think, so I thought, you know, that was kind of a distance, even though she does do work for the library. Wylie said oh, OK. Avery said that’s kind of how we got maybe a connection there, and she’s very qualified, for sure, but we just felt that everything, all things being equal, Fisher and Kolb all have us covered.

Jones said yeah, and honestly, this bio doesn’t really do her justice in terms of, like, you know, when you get in the room and meet her, and you’re talking with her, like, this is, yeah, this is not, doesn’t really, full picture doesn’t come through.

Wylie said roughly how long has she been practicing law? Avery said I would say probably 15, 20 years, maybe. Jones said yeah. Wylie said OK. Jones said because I was gonna say 20, yeah. Wylie said OK.

Forte said wait, so she works with Fisher? Wylie said mm-hmm. Jones said yeah, so it’s the two of them, yeah. Forte said OK, so when he retires, hopefully. Jones said yeah, that’s, yeah, that’s what, yeah. Forte said and she’s the one in Grand Rapids, or no? Jones said no, no, no, that’s a different one. Forte said OK. Jones said no, these are both local. Forte said OK. Jones said local-ish, local adjacent. Forte said OK.

Wylie recognized Quisenberry for a question.

Quisenberry said Mr. Fisher’s hourly rate is $200 per hour. But, and that’s more than double what Mr. Ryan’s was. And yet, in our budget preparation, we thought we were gonna be, we’re planning on leaving the expense for attorney about the same. Avery said yeah. Quisenberry said so, and extrapolate this, Mr. Fisher is probably going to be less present. Do you have any idea what we can expect from him and his presence being here? Avery said let Smith.

Smith said so, a couple points on that. First of all, Ryan has not gone much above $15,000, $18,000 in the last few years. So, we’re well below the $30,000 budget level that we kept for this new budget. So, we think from a budget standpoint, we have a little bit of flex room. I understand this rate is like double to what Ryan’s is, but he’s going to defer as much as he can to Kolb, a little bit cheaper, $150. But we’ll have to evaluate throughout the year to stay within that budget. Maybe we work towards a online connection via Teams rather than being here in person, which will cut down on drive time or just hourly wages. So, there are a few things we can look at, but we’re confident that we can stay within that $30,000 budget.

Jones said we also did some back of the envelope math based on what we were being, what we were paying Ryan vis-a-vis how many hours that equates to with the new billing rate and what we budgeted. And, it’s all very comfortably within that number without us having to scramble. So, that was the other thing that let us make that decision.

Avery said right, and we did discuss with him our budget limitations. And again, Mr. Fisher obviously knows. I mean, he’s very connected around here. So, he knew. But we made it clear that listen, we’re not going to spend thousands and thousands of dollars on legal fees because we can’t afford it. If you guys are comfortable working within that budget, then if you’re not, let us know and we’ll make note of that. And, they didn’t. No one did, to be honest with you.

Quisenberry said that’s what I was going to ask. Were there any that they just pretty much priced themselves out of the market? And, specifically, I was wondering about somebody whose name I submitted to the board, the panel. Robert, what’s Robert’s last name? He was from Corp Counsel with Oakland County. And he handles their – Avery said Robbie Clark. Quisenberry said yeah. Avery said yeah, I looked over his letter. He does police misconduct cases. That’s his, from what I could gather from his information, which is not what we’re looking for. That’s not. I mean, he does defense type work. Civil defense. And, we’re looking for people that were more in tune with governmental issues, like FOIA and Open Meetings Acts and those sort of things. Quisenberry said and I think you hit the nail on the head with these two here.

Wylie said do either of you know what increments they bill at? Somebody told me once that, well, I mean, let’s start. Do you know? Avery said yeah, it’s tenths of an hour. Ryan was kind of an outlier. There aren’t any attorneys that really charge by the half hour anymore. Wylie said OK. Avery said but, his hourly rate was so low, at the .5, you didn’t really notice it. Everybody else will. Wylie said you said 10 minutes. Avery said yeah, every six minutes. Wyle said six minutes, OK. Avery said six-minute increments. Wylie said OK. And that’s pretty much the going way they do business now. Jones said yeah.

Wylie said anybody else on council, questions or comments?

No comments.

Wylie said anybody in the public have questions or comments on this Item #10B.

No comments.

Wylie said OK. We’ve got a resolution put up by Jones, seconded by Avery. So, we need a roll call vote. Smith said OK.

Wylie, Rodgers, Quisenberry, Jones, Forte, and Avery.

Wylie said OK, then the motion is adopted, and welcome to Gerald Fisher and Kristen Kolb. Thank you to the committee for your work.

Smith said Fisher will be at the next meeting. Wylie said OK. Smith said so, you’ll get a chance to meet him, and he can give an overview of the kinds of services and answer your questions. Wylie said will Kristen Kolb be at the next meeting, do you think, too. Smith said I’m not sure whether she’ll be able to make it, but if possible, yes. Wylie said OK. Great, thanks.

Item #10C – Resolution – Miller Road Closing at Holcomb during I-75 Constructions (video time mark 0:23:48)

• • Resolution – Provisional Approval to Close Miller Road at Holcomb Road (page 44/52 of the council packet)
  • Map, Holcomb Road (page 45/52 of the council packet)

Wylie said Item #10C is resolution Miller Road closing at Holcomb during I-75 construction.

(Wylie read the resolution.)

Wylie said so, I think, once again, we’ll take somebody to make the resolution, and then a second, then we can have discussion.

Resolution by Jones; second Forte.

Wylie said discussion from council, or comments, or questions. I mean, I think we’ve all, I’ll sorry, (to Smith), you go ahead.

Smith said well, I just wanted to add that we have representation from the township here today – Wylie said OK – (continuing), Smith said so if you want to get their input – Wylie said OK – (continuing), Smith said on kind of what their mindset is – Wylie said sure – (continuing), Smith said they’re here to add. Wylie said all right. Smith said I’ll help fill in some of the blanks.

Wylie said all right, gentlemen, anybody who would like to speak? An unnamed man said wow. (Unintelligible.) Smith said we didn’t mean to put you on the spot. Wylie said do you want to hear us talk about it first? An unidentified man said yeah, why don’t we do that. Trying to figure out where I put my black jacket on.

Wylie said I’m 100% behind closing Miller Road. I don’t think, whether Bluegrass closes or not, based on what letters, and emails, and residents coming to meetings say, I think it needs to be shut down for everybody except for residents. Avery said well, right. There’s no easy fix here. Wylie said no. Avery said I can, I’ve walked into the problem, and my family, we had a grad party in Warren, and I have family that live in Birch Run, and they typed in the address, and Google, I’m pretty sure it was Google, purposely had them get off at 106, exit 106, and come down Dixie Highway and drive through Clarkston. Wylie said 106? Avery said yeah, that’s, Grand Blanc, that’s, yeah. Smith said what is it. Wylie said what way. Quisenberry said I-75. Avery said Dixie Highway, yeah, it’s on the Dixie Highway. So, I mean, we’re screwed. Because it wouldn’t matter, we could block all the roads, it wouldn’t matter, but they’re purposely getting rerouted onto Dixie Highway instead of staying on 75 for no reason, so . . .

Wylie said wait, so where were the, where was the, where. Avery said they were coming south on 75. Wylie said so where should they have gotten off. Avery said well, they should have just stayed on 75 all the way down to Twelve Mile Road. Wylie said oh, I see what you’re saying. Avery said they told them, oh, you better get faster to go down Dixie Highway and come to Clarkston versus staying on 75. Wylie said oh. Jones said well, have you figured out where it’s, on 75 south where it splits. Because they give you the express and the local, and I think that people are getting confused by that as well.

Avery said and I can tell you also that, you know, I live on Holcomb, not far from the corner, that when the motorcycles go by and they’ve got their Google Maps so we can all hear it, the thing is telling them to turn right on Washington. Wylie said oh, you can hear it on the motorcycles. Jones said yes, because they turn their radio up louder so they can hear it over their car, their motorcycle. Avery said yes, and we all get to hear it. Avery said Quisenberry can confirm that, I’m sure he’s heard it many times. But you can hear the Siri or whoever telling them to turn right on the Washington, so they’re already coming down, they’re being routed this way, so we’re, we can, you know, block all, unless you’re gonna block the whole thing at Dixie, you’re gonna get a ton of traffic.

Smith said this is a discussion I’ve had with MDOT about several times now – Avery said yeah – (continuing), Smith said that they are supposed to call Google and all their network of Google-like people, and tell them to stop using these back roads as an entrance to Clarkston. Stay on the designated detour route, which is Dixie to M-15, and then north to get on the southbound 75. Avery said yeah. Smith said but they’re not staying on Dixie. Avery said they’re being routed off. Smith said they’re actually being routed off. Avery said yeah, they’re being told to turn onto Holcomb, or what is it there, Davisburg Road. Smith said Davisburg Road. Avery said and follow it. Smith said and Holcomb in.

Smith said we’ve heard arguments from, I’ve heard from the weigh master that trucks that he’s pulled over, these are business vehicles, commercial vehicles, and the drivers have said that their Google map system told them to come down Holcomb, not Dixie, but to come down Holcomb. So, this is what I thought was a very shallow recommendation or proposal by MDOT. If they actually do this, I think it will help dramatically. But they haven’t done it yet, because the recommendations are still take the back roads.

Avery said yeah. And all this does is when you close Bluegrass and you close Miller, and I get it, I came down Miller on the way home yesterday at 4:30 in the afternoon, and it was jammed. Wylie said on Sunday. Avery said on Sunday. Yeah, everybody’s trying to turn left, you know, going east and turning left onto M-15, and it’s like, but the people aren’t, they’re still gonna come. So, all we’re gonna do is back up on Holcomb. So, all the folks on Holcomb are gonna have all that traffic now. We have some already, but it’s gonna be a lot more. We only got one road to get out on M-15.

Wylie said so hopefully though, the Waze and Apple and all those other people who do watch it, I don’t know if Google watches it, but Apple and Waze, is that what it’s called, Waze? Jones said Waze and Google are the same. Wylie said they keep it immediate. So hopefully they’ll say, don’t take those roads, because they’re all backed up right now.

Jones said yeah, I can tell you from experience on the corporate side of trying to get, like, the Facebooks and the Googles and those, they get to it when they want to. Like, I’ve had to deal with it for business hours and things like that, but my question is, OK, so we’re gonna close Miller Road off to residents only, and like Bluegrass is gonna be closed to residents only. Are they gonna do anything to enforce that, or are they just gonna put the signs up like they did for their first attempt at closing Bluegrass, and people laugh at them as they drive by, or they look at the signs as they drive by? Smith said this will be a full barricade across the whole entrance. Right now, the one at Bluegrass is just a barricade kind of sitting off to the side, and you can easily drive around it. Under the proposal, it would be a full barricade across there, short of them getting out of their cars and pulling the barricade aside, they will not be able to get down.

Rodgers said so, how do the residents get in. Wylie said how do the residents get in. Smith said they come in from Main Street. They have to. Rodgers said so, they’re gonna have to get in all that traffic to go down their road. Smith said yes. Jones said and so, the same thing for the Miller Road residents. Smith  said they’ll have to come in from Main Street. So, if it’s not all good news for the residents, there’ll be some bad news.

Wylie said anybody else on council, or any gentlemen from Independence Township want to speak up?

Chuck Phyle said hi, my name’s Chuck Phyle. I’m the Independence Township supervisor. I did want to say that Smith and I have spent a lot of time on this particular topic, right? We’ve had the RCOC [Road Commission of Oakland County], the MDOT [Michigan Department of Transportation], probably fifteen of the MDOT people were on the call when we made the call. They’ve been around there for about an hour and a half. Ultimately what it comes down to is really poor planning by MDOT. You know, there’s 28 or 32 miles of bridges that they’re fixing, which are eleven. The M-15/I-75 bridge is the furthest south bridge. It also happens to be the last bridge they’re gonna fix. Right, so they started up north where the volume of traffic for the three or four, or I’m sorry, at least six or seven of them that are directly north of us, the volume of traffic on those is nothing compared to what the volume of traffic is on Dixie and M-15. They said, well, we tried to talk to them, like, well, why don’t we switch it? Let’s get the Dixie M-15 first. They’re like, no, we can’t because all the equipment, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? So, you know, I think I was, Smith will say that I was probably a little less than cordial or politically correct in some of my feedback on their project management.

Phyle said at the end of the day, what we’re looking at is the problem we’re seeing from the township standpoint is that coming out of Bluegrass, you hit that southbound ramp. It’s kind of a weird little diagonal, right? And, you know, I was sitting just, I think it was last Friday, at 5th Street about 2:00. We went at 4:10, so I wasn’t on township time. And I was sitting there, and I must have heard ten to fifteen cars just gunning it to get across, horns honking, everything else. So, there’s obviously a potential issue there. We tried to talk them into putting up a temporary stoplight there to try to regulate the traffic a little bit. They said they wouldn’t do it. I don’t know why, but they just said, point blank, they’re not doing it. So, after a little while, we did talk about the ways and all that, maybe try to get them to reroute it. They said they were working on it. I don’t think at the end of the day it’s gonna matter much.

Phyle said since then, what we’ve done is I’ve had ITV [Independence Television], Jonathan from ITV, go out with a drone and kind of fly over Bluegrass just to kind of give an idea and a perspective of the volume of traffic and everything else. It does seem, since the high school got out, that the traffic on Bluegrass has dropped significantly. So, from that standpoint, we can say that the through traffic, or not through traffic, but resident-only traffic does seem to be having an impact. I noticed on Sunday I was also driving, yeah, you’re right, that Miller Road was backed all the way up, but Bluegrass had three cars on it. So, I think the sign from that standpoint is working. The idea that we’re looking at is, I talked to the schools, and they said there’s only two buses, there aren’t any bus stops on Bluegrass. At least I talked to them about Bluegrass, not Miller. And they said that come the fall, they can reroute it if we know we’re gonna close it, barricade it at Holcomb, on the Holcomb side. We are going to probably talk a little bit longer about maybe leaving it just the way it is for right now until the fall.

Phyle said the problem now, so there’s a little bit of a timing issue there, right? So, if the traffic isn’t all that bad, I mean, it’s bad, don’t get me wrong, but if it’s down to three, four cars, and the semis aren’t coming down, which, by the way, when I was driving by Miller, I did see a semi on Miller, which there shouldn’t be. So, the weigh master, I keep on trying to get them to spend some more time out there, and they’re writing a lot of tickets. Is that with the idea that when we started that phone call, they said they were about a month behind schedule because of supply issues. By the end of the conversation, an hour and a half later, I asked, okay, well, when are you supposed to be done with this? And they said, well, the middle of November. And I said, well, wait a minute, is that the middle of November based on the original project plan or the month delay? And they said, well, that was the original project. So, I said, OK, well, you’re not working in December, January, February, so this is probably gonna go on until March of next year. I think that’s probably a reasonable timeframe for this to go on. So, we’re gonna probably look at it, take a harder look come, you know, the end of August, September to permanently block it off if we run back into the same scenario. In part, also, it’s because Chief Piché from the fire and EMS says that there’s no shoulder on Bluegrass. So, if you’re back-to-back and you got traffic on both sides, they can’t get anything down that road. So, if there’s anything in that back area there, there’s no way for them to get through there. So that’s really kind of our concern is more from a safety standpoint, not only coming out from Bluegrass, but also trying to service the residents in there if there’s a need.

Phyle said we are, and I’ve been in constant contact with Smith about, you know, the fact that we may be delaying our closure until the fall when the school starts up again, just based on some of the traffic patterns we’re seeing now. But, you know, if you guys are closing Miller, then we’re gonna have to close Bluegrass because all it’s gonna do is tick everybody off and they’re all just gonna drive through there anyways.

Phyle said so, it’s kind of a coordinated effort and I just wanted to come here just to kind of say that this is kind of what our thinking is, but obviously what one does, the other one’s gonna have to do.

Wylie said so, what you’re saying right now is, as of now, because school is out, you’re not going to fully close Bluegrass until August. Phyle said I’m gonna say that’s gonna be the – Wylie said unless the city does something with Miller. Phylie said yes, I’m gonna say that’s based on some of the footage I’ve seen from the drone, but Smith’s still out there getting some of that image. So, if it suddenly comes back and it just happens that you picked a day where it was light, but all the other days have been heavy, then we may close it. But right now, I’m thinking that I’m gonna present to my board that we wait until probably the fall. The other thing is, though if we wait till the fall, we’re gonna, am I more than three minutes? Is that what you – Wylie said no, no, no, I’m sorry. I’m giving somebody else signals. Phyle said OK, wow.

Phyle said the other thing is, is that eventually, and it’s coming sooner than later, they’re gonna close the southbound M-15 ramp that I got them to open up. And so, when they close that, that’s gonna shift all the traffic again. But in all reality, it’ll – Wylie said I’m sorry, which southbound – Phyle said I-75. Avery said if you’re coming south on 15, they can get on 75 right now. Wylie said right, so that’s, okay, all right. Avery said so, they’re gonna close that. Wylie said wow. Phyle said and so when that happens, that’s gonna shift all the traffic again anyways. Quisenberry said yeah, and cause people to go past it and make a U-turn and get on southbound 75 from the northbound M-15 ramp. Phyle said well, they were doing that, right. That’s what they were doing, and that was causing a whole bunch of problems, congestion in there. They, when I was talking to them, they said that they might be closing that ramp too because they see it as a safety issue. So, they will close all southbound ramps, both of them, on 75 coming off of 15. Wylie said I’m so glad they’re so concerned for us. Phyle said you know, again, if they do that, though, then all the traffic on Bluegrass, Miller, you know, Washington, they’re all gonna go somewhere else. I don’t know where they’re gonna go, but – Jones said did they say what their timing was. Phyle said no, but they’re just working their way south. So, if you figure it was November, they’re gonna go back through. If you look, if you drive north on 75, you can see that the highways have already been ripped up and they’re getting closer. So, I would say probably, based on what I’ve seen from progress, ‘cause I go up to Holly all the time, is that we’re probably talking two months till the middle of the summer. Probably August, it’ll be, they’re gonna look at closing.

Jones said we’re gonna get a heads up on that before, or are they just gonna bring it on us again? Smith said we heard that on the calls, so that was the last I heard, was August 20th, was that they’d be at the point where they’d be closing the southbound entrances to 75 from M-15. So, I guess, in a way, that’s good news, because then M-15 and Miller and Bluegrass will be of no use to these people. Quisenberry said exactly, yeah. Smith said so, they’ll find, they’ll either have to go down to Sashabaw or go up, hopefully, north. Maybe one of those entrances has been reopened by then. (Unintelligible comments.)

Phyle said yeah, so, like I said, I don’t know whether, they’re probably gonna hit Waldon and Sashabaw, maybe, and go up that way up, trying to get up to Sashabaw. I mean, get onto Sashabaw to Waldon, maybe. So that’s why, the other reason why we’re also kinda, I’m kinda contemplating just delaying the actual hard close, leave the no-through traffic up until probably the beginning of the school year, somewhere around there. But if you guys close it, I just think that they’ll have to close it. Avery said well, the resolution says if. If you do it, then we respond, as it sits right now. So, when you go to close it, then we’ve given Smith the authority to close Miller at that point. But if you haven’t closed Bluegrass, then we won’t close Miller. Smith  said no, as long as we change the resolution.

Wylie said anybody else on council, questions or comments?

Phyle said no.

Wylie recognized Robert [no last name provided] for a comment.

Robert said I was gonna say, obviously, the school being out, it’s gotten a little bit better, but with Pine Knob concerts, and that’s, I mean, it’s almost worse than school. So, we’re kinda back to the whole point of people coming up from the north, coming down, trying to get across, and they can’t. So, we’re just kinda back in the same bucket, you know, so. Jones said you mentioned the weigh master and having him come out to write more tickets. You can tell him that we’ll let him write tickets over on Miller Road if he wants to, all day, twice on Sunday. Robert said yeah, OK. Yeah.

Rodgers said so, I’m wondering, though, if we close Miller and Bluegrass, if then they won’t have to close the southbound M-15 going north, out of town. Because their concern is that it’s dangerous for them coming out of Bluegrass and doing the U-turn, right? That was never proposed to close, that southbound, right? And they were only gonna close it because it was gonna be dangerous. Well, if we close Bluegrass and Miller at that point in time, then they can leave M-15 south. Otherwise, you’re gonna have the entire northern Oakland County going to Sashabaw at six o’clock in the morning, which is gonna be a nightmare. Jones said but where’s the bridge that they’re working on that they’re gonna go to the south. Rodgers said just because they said it was dangerous. Jones said I thought they were working on it. Wylie said I thought they were doing some work. Jones said they’re working on the bridge. Or that exit. Rodgers said the one southbound, not the one that’s going out of town. They’re talking about the southbound, this. Jones said OK.

Smith said all of the northbound M-15 are the southbound I-75. That entrance, this is shown here on this map. That would stay open, this one here. Because that’s after the bridge. Avery and Rodgers said OK. Smith said now, they’re having to lower the roadway, which sounds crazy, but that’s a huge effort to lower the roadway to make the clearance for trucks under the bridges higher. They can’t raise the bridge, but the standard for truck height has grown in the last few years. So, it’s no longer a 12-foot clearance, and now it’s gotta be like 15 to 16 feet. They’re having to actually lower the roadway to achieve that clearance that they’re at. That’s a big effort, and there’s several, I’m not sure if it’s M-15 or not, but several of the bridges, you’ll see, if you’re going on I-75, you see them digging out, excavating, lowering the roadway, and that’s why that’s a big effort. It’s gonna take some time. Rodgers said but that could be a rationale for closing Miller and Bluegrass, that they would need an exit to save our souls.

Wylie recognized Forte for a comment.

Forte said so, should we change the resolution to close Miller. Because right now it’s contingent on the township, and so like, should we just do it, and then the township can follow suit? So, to end this conversation again next meeting? Avery said I’m more inclined to give Smith the freedom – Jones said yeah – (continuing), Avery said to follow the township personally, versus the other way around. Because like Phyle said, if we close Miller, he’s gonna close – Smith said well, another option would be to do the same thing on Miller that was done on Bluegrass. It’s kind of an on-your-honor system, right? Put a barricade up, say, residents only, somewhere what’s on Bluegrass. Avery said put it at Holcomb. Smith said yeah, at Holcomb and Miller – Avery said right – Smith said asking people to, and at Miller and Main Street, asking people on the honor system, this is, this road is for residents only. And if it appears to have helped Bluegrass, we could do the same thing without completely closing Miller as a way of reducing the threat. Rodgers said minimally, that would stop the big haulers. They just can’t get around that barricade. Smith said yeah.

Forte said yeah, I think we should do something. Like, let’s do that, talk about it, see if it works. And then, if it doesn’t work, we can pivot, like. Avery said well, I get it, but there’s a yin and a yang to this, and we need to close that. Jones said yeah. Avery said Holcomb and Washington’s gonna be. Rodgers said crazy. Avery said crazier. It’s crazy already. Jones said that’s why having this as a contingent, instead of just all, like, I look at it as, let’s have the option to make traffic bad, or let’s just immediately make traffic worse right now by closing them. Smith said Washington. Jones said yeah. Holcomb and Washington would be a lot easier. Avery said yeah. I’d rather let Smith have the flexibility.

Wylie recognized Pardee for a comment and said I know you’ve been waiting. You had a comment?

Pardee said yes. So, when you’re talking about closing at exit 91, is the northbound exit to come to Clarkston still gonna be open? You were talking about the southbound. Phyle said no, so coming south on M15 to get to the I-75 south, that’s gonna close, for sure. Then they were talking about, if you’re coming from downtown Clarkston, to hit the southbound 75 ramp on the right by 5th Street, they’re saying because of the danger there, they’re considering closing that. Rodgers said I think that’s what we should do.

Pardee said the other thing that has me puzzled was that when we began this conversation several weeks ago, I had understood that MDOT’s intention was to have heavy traffic on Dixie and then bring that traffic through the village. Wylie said that’s what we’ve been told. (Unintelligible comment). Wylie said through Main Street. Pardee said right. Wylie said Dixie Highway to Main Street. And then fix the lights. Pardee said but as long as these side streets are open, I was, here’s me off the chart. What if White Lake is closed at Dixie so that people couldn’t come down to Holcomb? Avery said well, that’s the county estimate, that decision. Pardee said yeah, but I mean, I’m thinking, OK, the intention was, by MDOT, was to bring traffic on Dixie through M15. Smith said that was the intention. Pardee said and as long as we’ve got these little side roads open, everybody’s gonna try to take them. Avery said well, especially when they’re being directed by various map apps to take the back roads. So, you’re gonna have to cut them off at Davisburg, too. You’re gonna have to somehow stop them from coming down Davisburg off of Dixie, because that’s another route they’re taking, which I think is what’s causing most problems with Bluegrass. That’s where most people are coming from. Because most of the people are coming off Dixie, down White Lake and Holcomb, that’s where they’re coming from. They’re not coming from that, they’re coming this way.

Smith said in the morning, there’s a fair amount of traffic that’s coming up White Lake Road, and then that just exasperates the four-way stop, because there’s that many more people – Avery said yeah – (continuing), Smith said coming from both directions to that four-way stop. But if you closed White Lake Road, it would help somewhat, and then you wouldn’t have that many people coming north on White Lake Road and Holcomb.

Quisenberry said so that would prevent any driver on either north or south of Dixie turning onto White Lake, and also any driver coming across White Lake that wants to cross Dixie and continue on White Lake, they wouldn’t be able to. No turns there. That’s quite a lot.

Jones said and that’s just making problems for like, pushing the problem out to other people too. I mean – Pardee said except that was what MDOT was trying to do originally was to get people to come on Dixie and then come on M-15. Avery said all right, Dixie has five lanes of traffic.

Quisenberry said and guess what MDOT did today on Dixie, southbound Dixie, they closed one right lane. Pardee I’ll tell you the thing that I’m looking for humor earlier this week, and I’m thinking now, we became a city in the 90s. ‘92, ‘92, right? Coté ‘92. Pardee said in order to be sure that MDOT, the state, didn’t bring traffic woes to Main Street, right? That was why we did that. They were talking about, we’ve got to go to four lanes. We’ve got the traffic. Wylie said they found a way to do it anyway. Avery said well, listen, it’s a temporary thing. They’re fixing 75. That happens once every, what, 30 years or however long. So, we just gotta, at some level, we just have to take it. Wylie said but they have done it, like a bunch of clowns. Yeah, this is, you know, the fact that they did not encourage traffic on Dixie Highway, they haven’t done anything with those lights, they haven’t done anything about the turn signal at Dixie and Main Street. That’s what they should have done. They should have handled this months ago. They should not have closed all those entrance ramps. But, you know, and we’re stuck with it.

Jones said well, we shouldn’t be surprised, considering the fact that when we’re asking about legitimate ongoing traffic issues that aren’t caused by construction or temporary issues, that their response is a until we have fatality, they’re not gonna do anything about it. So why would we be surprised that they’re acting like this during road construction that’s impacting the entire state? So, anyhow.

Wylie recognized Quisenberry for a comment.

Quisenberry said I’m thinking about this. If they close both ramps to southbound I-75 on M-15, whether you’re coming north or south, like what Smith said, that is pretty much gonna take away our problem in Bluegrass, Holcomb, Miller Road, and whatever, because all the traffic that is coming this way from the west and the north now can’t get on where they want to. They have to find another way to get on. So, if they, I’m looking at that as thinking that could be an answer. Rodgers said yeah, but then that’s just gonna force it all down Clarkston Road and all down Maybee, because nobody in northern Oakland County can get on the I-75 south, compared to Holly. Quisenberry said it would make Sashabaw the exit that they’re gonna have to get on. Quisenberry said exactly. Yeah, but on Baldwin, which is very – Rodgers said yeah, exactly. Avery said Baldwin.

Wylie said OK, so we have a resolution right now, which does say, this is provisionally authorized as a city manager to fully close Miller Road and Holcomb if Independence Township Board votes to close Bluegrass and Holcomb. So, we can vote this as it is now. We can amend the resolution. What would you guys like to do?

Quisenberry said vote on this. Wylie said vote on it. I got somebody voting, I see a vote nod.

(An unidentified woman later identified as Christie Brandon began speaking through the online access option.) Brandon said is there any way a concerned citizen could make a comment. Wylie said please, yes.

Brandon said yeah, my name is Christie Brandon, and I live in the Bridge Valley development off of Holcomb, and I am very concerned about the closing of Miller Road. Holcomb is how I get into Clarkston, how I get to my church, how I get to Dixie. Closing Miller is gonna push all that traffic to Washington, which, as you all have mentioned, already has a traffic problem, especially when they closed Bluegrass. And so, I understand the perspective that we’re frustrated with this traffic, but I feel like continuing to push it down the road, literally, is not necessarily the right answer. What that’s gonna do is highly inconvenience and frustrate those of us who actually live here.

Wylie thanked Brandon. Anybody want to comment on Brandon’s comments?

Jones said well, and I think that’s why having this is provisional, so that we aren’t going to be doing anything with Miller Road. We’ll only do that if Bluegrass is closed and that hand is forced.

Pardee said that’s not the number one intention at this point, right. (To Pardee), Wylie said excuse me, I’ve got somebody waiting. Go ahead.

An unidentified man said can’t we just do the same thing like Bluegrass is doing, but just some temporary no-through traffic on our system? At least we’ll cut down on the semi-trucks? Wylie said I think that’s what Smith, I believe that’s what he mentioned doing. Avery said yeah, and that’s not really closing Miller. I don’t know that he needs our authority to do that, right? Or do you want some authority? I don’t know how you want to… Jones said yeah, just putting residents-only no-through traffic signs. Avery said yeah, that’s still open, yeah. Seems fine by me. Smtih said so that’s an option, too. Forte said is that covered in this resolution? Wylie said we’d have to change it or come up with a – (interrupting Wylie), Avery said well, what I’m saying is, I don’t know that he needs a resolution because he’s not officially closing the road.

Rodgers said how did Bluegrass, oh, that was in the past. Wylie said that’s the township. Rodgers said yeah, do we need to add that? Avery said he wished Ryan were here.

Smith said so, let me ask, (to Phyle), so Bluegrass, I understand that MDOT was involved in that as well. So that was a combination of your guys and MDOT people working on putting up those barricades? Phyle said yeah, so I called MDOT and Dennis over at MDOT and had him do it, and then he contracted RCOC. And then they contracted the contractor to put it up. Smith said of course. Phyle said so, yeah, all right. But it started with MDOT. Smith said OK.

Jones said so, do we have any, do we, does Public Works own any of those, you know, barricades. Smith said we own barricades. I don’t think we have signage that says, a road closed to residents only. We’d have to get some of that signage, maybe from a road commission or a contractor. But, you know, we can do that. Quisenberry said let’s go get a sign from Bluegrass. (Laughter.) Jones said now, now. Smith said they’re still in the (unintelligible).

Wylie said yeah. I do want to, one comment I wanted to make, particularly after listening to Brandon, the lady who spoke on our speaker system. I think the, for me, and probably a lot of people on council, the idea of closing Miller and Bluegrass together is to force people to take Dixie Highway. You know, it’s not to inconvenience, and which may help people on Bridge Valley or other people on north Holcomb or any of those northern areas, that it may make it more accessible to them. And hopefully other people coming from Grand Blanc or Genesee County would actually take Dixie Highway and MDOT would fix those lights and make that a better route.

Wylie recognized Forte for a comment.

Forte said yeah, to just go off that, I think the best thing, in my opinion, would be to probably partially close both roads just to residents, because I agree. I also go to that church that’s tucked in there, and we go to Brandon all the time. So, to get in there today, like, I drove around the thing and I was like, am I allowed to do this? And then I was like, I don’t know how to get here otherwise, like, other than going to the next and then snaking over, you know what I mean? So, I feel like we’ve got to be able to get in there somehow. Wylie said are you talking about getting out of Bluegrass to get to the church? Forte said yeah, just to get into church or like to go to like any of those houses in there. So yeah, I think maybe we just do the partial to city residents, or to residents anyway. Avery said yeah, or Miller. Forte said yeah. Avery said yeah, let’s, my thought is try it. Let’s see, you know, I’m sure Rob will let you know.

Rodgers said because this gathers up a good point. There’s a lot of people that live, like that this isn’t a new way for them. This is the way they always come to Clarkston. This is the way their morning routine always is, or their afternoon. So, it’s not like they put it in ways because they’ve been doing this for 30 years, right? So those people still should be able to come that way. You know, it’s the ones that are being rounded from somewhere different. So yeah, I think that’s the best. Jones said well, ostensibly the ones that have been taking it for 30 years will still continue. It’s the new folk that are being redirected here. We’ll see it and it’ll give them pause. And so hopefully. Rodgers said exactly.

Forte said so, should we change the resolution to, so it says authorizes the city in the last section, it says author at the end of the first line, authorizes the city manager to fully and then add or partially close Miller, that or partially would be what we add. Jones said well, no. OK, I thought we were asking regardless to partially close Miller to residents. I thought that was what we’re, no? Wylie said no, it’s fully. Jones said no, no, no, no, no, no, right now. Like, I thought our two options right now are to partially close Miller to residents and then have this provisional to fully close Miller if Bluegrass is fully closed by Independence Township. Avery said well, right. Jones said but it’s not like it’s – Avery said I mean, Ryan’s not here to tip us his two cents worth, but I don’t know that we need to give Smith authority to put – Jones said yeah, to put the, yeah. Yeah, I don’t think the resolution needs to be changed. He can go do that. We can vote on the resolution. Avery said we’re just giving him an extra to close it if he feels the need, if Bluegrass gets closed. Jones said yeah.

Smith said you can go ahead and vote on this today. Smith said it gives me that option should that come to be needed. But in the meantime, (to Avery), as you’re saying, I could do, even without a motion, I could do the partial closing. Jones said OK. Smith said to residents only, so I could do that on my own. Wylie said OK.

Wylie said are we ready to take a vote. Jones said yes, please.

Wylie recognized Cara Catallo for a comment.

Catallo said I was just curious because it sounds like, I guess I’m confused about what the residents only means. Does that include people like in Bridge Valley or is it just the local residents who live right there? Because it seems like we’re going in a direction opposite of what the caller said. But then I had two other comments. One was suggesting maybe that there, if there’s some way to get a weigh master to maybe spend some time on Glenburnie where he could easily, you know, pull over somebody instead of waiting for them to get to the township. Sorry, Mr. Phyle, but like, it just seems like there might be at least one possible, like – Forte said is that the stop sign? Catallo said yeah, like just, because otherwise there’s no place to do that. And also, I didn’t know if anybody’s asked MDOT about electronic signage because I haven’t, maybe I just, because I work from around here, I don’t move around for what the signs might say, like detour, go to M15 on Dixie or anything like that. But I haven’t noticed a lot of signage, and it seems like there would be electronic ones that could say like, you know, keep going to Dixie or whatever it might say. Just because, I mean, it has been a little bit better at, at least, you know, Washington and Holcomb. And now, of course, I’m thinking (unintelligible) that everyone’s gonna start going to Sashabaw because now that’s gonna pretty much affect our neighborhood, because everyone’s gonna be cutting down Buffalo to get to Waldon, you know. But yeah, so if we could fight that, that’d be great. But if those two things could be considered, and I just was curious what like residents mean, if that, like people – Wylie said residents means residents, you have to live on the street. Catallo said OK, so that’s – Wylie said to me, that’s what a resident is. Catallo said so everybody in Birch Run – Wylie said it’s unfortunate, but as far as the weigh master, the last meeting that Sergeant Ashley was here, he indicated that there’s a shortage of officers and they’re trying to get somebody working as a weigh master there, but they also have the way station, I think, on I-75 that they have to man. That was my impression, if anybody had anything different, that they’re trying to do it as much as they can, but they only have so many officers to spread around. Catallo said right, but I just heard that they’re focusing on that once they get to the township, but I don’t know if that’s true or not, but my suggestion was just to maybe get a few others still in the village.

Wylie said OK, thank you. Anybody else before, OK, roll call, please. Smith said OK.

Jones, Quisenberry, Forte, Avery, Wylie, and Rodgers.

Wylie said and Casey was absent, so the motion is adopted. Thank you very much.

Item #10D – Resolution – 2025-20236 Fiscal Year Budget (video time mark 1:02:13)

• • Resolution – 2025-2026 Fiscal Year Budget (page 46/52 of the council packet)
  • General Appropriations Act (page 47/52 of the council packet)

Wylie said Item #10D, resolution 2025-26, fiscal year budget. Avery said whereas, it’s here.

(Wylie read the resolution.)

Wylie said so, let’s do the resolution, make the resolution and second, then we can have any other discussion that’s appropriate.

Resolution by Quisenberry; second Jones.

Wylie said and questions, comments, discussion from council members. I know we all talked a lot about it at the public hearing, the last meeting.

No comments.

Wylie said questions, comments, anything from the public.

Wylie recognized Cara Catallo for a comment.

Catallo said so, I’m just gonna sound like a broken record, but at least I’ll be able to sleep tonight. I still think that it’s tough to come to these. I’ve been going to the finance committee meetings, and it’s hard to hear the city manager saying like, Clarkston can’t exist much longer because we can’t afford to, but I want a considerable raise. I still think that it’d be more responsible to do it in two to three parts instead of just like a bulk amount. I don’t feel like that, this is a part-time job. I don’t feel like it’s something that the arguments are just to make sure that it’s more than the clerk or for false equivalencies comparing it to other positions, but it’s tough, I think, because I’m a long-term resident and I’ve known past city managers. We haven’t had a situation like this before, and I know that it’s always been sort of a second career, and just to me, it’s been painful to watch because we have the fire went up, and the building department, and the police, and everything’s gone up so much, and we’re not getting anything extra in return for these like increases. So, it’s just, it’s sad for me that this is happening. I wish that it weren’t. I wish that it could have waited one more year, and I just hope that everybody’s mindful moving forward and carefully looking at all of our costs. I’m sad that the committee members or the committee chairs weren’t really consulted for their budgets for all of this, and I just feel like that this process needs to begin much earlier so it isn’t like we’re out of time because the building department alone, I think we heard about that in January or February, but nobody’s really addressed that result, and I’m hoping, and I’ll bring that to the next meeting, that, like, I feel like it’s time to sort of talk about these things and involve more members of our community to find solutions. Wylie thanked Catallo.

Wylie said anybody else, comments.

Wylie recognized Robert [no last name provided] for a comment.

Robert said has the city explored all options to kind of like make more money? I mean, I know it’s a community effort, but like parking, for instance, put more parking meters out. When there’s functions going in town, I don’t follow too much, but renting out the pavilion or if there’s some kind of handout, or not handout, but like some type of promotion, you know, charging people for this, whether it’s $50 or $20, I mean, the city’s a pretty popular place, and I feel like a lot of times, from what I’ve heard, I’ve haven’t seen from what I’ve heard, that a lot of stuff just kind of goes pro bono. I mean, and I feel like there’s ways to maybe create more revenue in the city to justify a price increase, but at the same time, it is a full-time job and trying to find somebody to do a job nowadays, like all costs are going up. So, if you run the risk of maybe, like what you just said, stipulations, like find more money, make more money, it’s kind of like a compensation package, so. . .

Wylie said yeah, just so you know, we do charge for the use of the gazebo. We have staff doing pro bono. Robert said OK, we’ll just get it. Wylie said and we did, in our finance committee meetings, discuss with parking. Robert said but even if you like parking, just walking around town and wait here, you know, there’s houses with ordinance violations, whether it’s like not cutting grass or picking the stuff up or whatever, and not to be the petty city, but you go to Birmingham, you go to Royal Oak, you have people walking around, you know, the garbage isn’t picked up after two days, they got a ticket in the mail. What here, it seems, you know, it’s one of the reasons why we moved here, it’s because it’s a very homey environment, but sometimes it becomes too comfortable, and it puts us in a situation where we’re at right now. So that’s all I have to say. Wylie said thank you.

Wylie said anybody else.

Wylie recognized Jones for a comment.

Jones said I’m sorry, I just, because I agree, like, one of my things about going to this, the budget review is like, where are the new revenue streams gonna come from? What are their options for us to find money? But one thing I wanted to say, because I feel like it’s been a little, not mis-explained, but maybe misrepresented, and maybe that’s just because I haven’t lived here as long as some of the other residents, but when we’re referring to this, I know a lot of people like to say it’s a tax increase, but I think that’s disingenuous to call it a tax increase when what it is is going back to the amount that was originally voted on as supposed to be our taxable amount, because the way it’s kind of sitting right now, we’re paying all the bills that we have, but we’re leaving part of our paycheck at work. And so, this would just be a way of, I’m simplifying this, I know, but it’s a way of getting us back to actually taking our full paycheck and making sure that we’re solvent. And so, yes, there are gonna be some larger issues down there, but I think that people are wrapped up around the fact that, oh, this is a tax increase. No, it’s actually the city getting the tax money that it’s supposed to be taking that it hasn’t for the last several years. And so, after having that explained to me and looking at it again, I feel like this is the appropriate solution while looking for future revenue, whether that’s you know, increasing, getting that weigh master over here, or parking or other types of things that we can do. I do think that there are other avenues for us to continue to look for revenue that will help us. But for right now with this budget, I think that this is, we’re doing what we have to right now.

Wylie said anybody else on council.

Wylie said to me, it is a tax increase. To me, it’s absolutely no question it’s a tax increase. But I also think that something is justified and something we need to do.

Jones said I’m sorry, one last thing. But the other thing to remember is that, you know, if Smith were to quit tomorrow, the next person that comes in as city manager is gonna get this pay. That’s the way I’m looking at it. Like regardless of who’s in the role, that’s what they’re gonna be paid. So that’s how I’m looking at it.

Wylie said anybody else? Council?

No comments.

Wylie said public. I kind of lost track of what we’re doing.

Wylie said OK. Let’s vote.

Wylie recognized Pardee for a comment. The .691 has been discussed – (interrupting Pardee), Wylie said we, you go ahead and say it, but this has been discussed so many times. Go ahead. Pardee said you don’t know what I was trying to get. Wylie said OK, it is a tax increase. Yeah. Pardee said in here, I think about every other year, since it was implemented, somebody raised the question about, and then got pushed aside and said, well, no, we made a commitment. So, I just wanted you to know that I do disagree with your conclusion.

Wylie said OK. Roll call.

Jones, Forte, Quisenberry, Rodgers, Wylie, and Avery voted yes.

Wylie said and the resolution is adopted. Thank you very much.

Item #10E – Resolution – 2025-2026 Fiscal Year Millage Rate (video time mark 1:12:37)

• • Resolution to Establish the Millage Rate for the ’25-’26 Fiscal Year (page 52/52 of the council packet)

Wylie said we also have resolution 2025/26-year millage rate. Smith said and this is just a formality. Wylie said is that all. Smtih said it’s a part of the budget, but it’s a formality that gives Coté the authorization to have the tax bill. Wylie said the tax bills. Smith said printed. So, it’s kind of, it’s a little bit redundant of what we just voted on. Wylie said OK. Smith said but it is necessary to have a separate resolution. Wylie said OK, I’ll read it.

Resolution to establish the millage rate. I’m sorry, do we have to have a resolution number on this? I don’t know, anyway.

(Wylie read the resolution.)

Wylie said we’ll list the council members, which is everybody except for Casey. The following preamble and resolution were offered by council members. Somebody will make a resolution and it will be supported by somebody else.

(Wylie read the resolution.)

Wylie said and I do need somebody to make that resolution.

Resolution by Forte; second Jones.

Wylie said discussion from anybody on council.

No discussion.

Wylie said anybody in the public.

No discussion.

(To Smith), Wylie said let’s take a roll call, please.

Forte, Avery, Jones, Quisenberry, Wylie, and Rodgers voted yes.

Wylie said OK, so that’s present. We’ve got Forte, Avery, Jones, Quisenberry, Wylie, Rodgers. Nays, there’s none. Absent is Casey and the resolution is declared adopted. What’d I miss? You’re right, we talked about this before.

(To Smith), Wylie said the resolution needs to be changed where it says present council members, but it needs to say yay. Thank you. And the foregoing resolution was certified at a regular meeting of the Council of the City of the Village of Clarkston held on June 9th, 2025.

Agenda Item #11, Adjourn Meeting (video time mark 1:15:58):

Wylie said Item #11 is to adjourn the meeting. I’ll take a motion to adjourn the meeting.

Motion by Jones; second Forte.

Wylie said there’s no discussion.

Motion to adjourn the meeting passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said the meeting is adjourned at 8:16 p.m. Thank you very much.

Resources:

• • Link to video recording here
  • 06-09-2025 – city council packet