February 12, 2024 City Council Meeting

Introduction:

Links to the video recording and the council packet are at the bottom of this post. Please note any errors or omissions in the comments. Anything noted in brackets was inserted by Clarkston Sunshine.

Agenda Item #1, Call to Order (Video time mark 0:00:02):

Sue Wylie said OK, it’s 7:00, so she was going to call the meeting to order now at 7:00.

Agenda Item #2, Pledge of Allegiance (Video time mark 0:00:05):

Wylie said if everyone would please rise, they would say the Pledge of Allegiance. Wylie said her mind was blank.

Pledge said.

Wylie said all of a sudden, her years of teaching in a Catholic High School came back and all she could think of was we start with a prayer.

Peg Roth said she thought Wylie was going to belt out the national anthem.

Agenda Item #3, Roll Call (Video time mark 0:00:39):

Wylie said OK. Next is they are on Item #3 Roll Call. Wylie asked Karen [DeLorge, city clerk] if she would please call the roll.

Gary Casey, Amanda Forte, Mark Lamphier, Ted Quisenberry, Laura Rodgers, Peg Roth, and Sue Wylie were present.

Wylie thanked DeLorge and said so, everybody’s here.

Agenda Item #4, Approval of Agenda (Video time mark 0:01:03 and 0:22:51):

Wylie said Item #4 is Approval of the Agenda, and for this they need a motion and a second to approve the agenda as is presented.

Motion by Forte; second Lamphier.

Wylie asked if there was any discussion.

Roth said she had a question on Tom Ryan’s [city attorney’s] billing.

Wylie said that would be – Roth said too soon. Wylie said yeah, they’ll do that under the consent agenda. Roth said OK, sorry. Wylie said unless Roth wants to change, you want to talk. Roth said no, it’s just a question. Wylie said OK.

Wylie asked if there was anything else on the agenda.

No comments.

Motion to approve the agenda passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said it’s approved.

[Later addition to the agenda beginning at video time mark 0:22:51 to add Agenda Item #10d regarding returning $25,000 to the Optimist Club as mentioned in the city manager’s report.]

Wylie said OK. So now, because it’s not on the agenda and she missed it before because she was trying to read too fast, she would like to make a motion. Let her go back to this. She would like to make a motion. They’ll go back to Jonathan Smith’s [city manager’s], she doesn’t know if they should have a discussion, or it sounds like it’s already being returned.

Quisenberry said he doesn’t think it is. He doesn’t think they can just arbitrarily give it back without some sort of – (interrupting Quisenberry), Wylie said OK, so she’ll make a motion that they return the $25,000 donation to the Clarkston Area Optimist Club. Second Roth.

Casey said as requested. Wylie said as requested, thank you. Casey said as requested by the Optimist Club. Wylie said OK.

Tom Ryan [city attorney] asked if they wanted to make that Item #10d, New Business. Wylie said 10d, New Business, yes.

Wylie said before they can talk about it, they have to agree to amend the agenda.

Wylie said actually, she said that wrong. She’s making a motion to amend the agenda – Forte and Ryan agreed. Wylie said to include that – Ryan said point, yes.

Wylie said under New Business, and that is 10d.

Wylie asked if there was any discussion on amending the agenda?

No discussion.

Wylie said OK.

Quisenberry said he just wanted to make sure the motion is not to discuss it per se as much as it is to give it back. Wylie said to give it back. That’s her motion. So, you guys can vote with that or vote against that. That motion. That particular motion.

Roth said first you’re putting in a new – Wylie said this is just to change the agenda. Roth said to add, so she needs a 2/3 majority of them. Wylie said no, for this they need unanimous. Ryan said it needs to be unanimous. Roth said OK. Roth said (unintelligible) put it back on. Ryan said so if it doesn’t pass tonight, then it’ll probably be in two weeks because it – Roth said right, OK.

Wylie said OK and asked if there was any discussion on that.

Wylie asked for a unanimous voice vote.

Casey asked if this is to amend the – Wylie said this was to amend the agenda.

Ryan said they should take a roll call. Wylie said OK. It’s fine.

Roth, Rodgers, Quisenberry, Lamphier, Forte, Casey, and Wylie voted yes.

Wylie said OK, so the agenda has been amended.

Agenda Item #5, Public Comments (Video time mark 0:01:46):

[Though public comments can sometimes irritate the city council, there is value to both the council and the public in hearing them. While they can’t eliminate public comments entirely without violating the Open Meetings Act, your city council has occasionally decided not to acknowledge public comments during a city council meeting unless the person submitting the comments also appears at the meeting (in-person or electronically) to personally read them. In the past, members of the public have been cut off for exceeding the city council’s arbitrary three-minute time limit (it’s arbitrary because no time limits are required by the Open Meetings Act).

If your public comments were submitted to the council but not read, or if you tried to make public comments but your comments were cut short, please email them to clarkstonsunshine@gmail.com and I will include them in my informal meeting summaries either under public comments or under the specific agenda item that you want to speak to.]

Wylie said Item #5, they have public comments.

(Wylie read the rules for public comments.)

Wylie recognized a woman in the audience who’d raised her hand.

Wylie recognized Donna Papatheodoropoulos. She said Papatheodoropoulos could stand there. As long as it’s something not on the agenda, OK.

Papatheodoropoulos said it is not.

Wylie said it was up to Papatheodoropoulos to introduce herself or not. It’s her choice.

Donna Papatheodoropoulos:

Papatheodoropoulos introduced herself and provided the name of her street.

Papatheodoropoulos said, first off, she wanted to thank Casey and Forte for suggesting to have a committee look at the signage issue in Depot Park. That was really great. What she wants to say to the council is that she thinks we should keep in mind the appeal of a simple downtown park. We have Independence Oaks only two miles away. They provide large picnic pavilions, band shells, opportunities for large family gatherings, all paid for by the residents of Oakland County. Our little Depot Park is paid for and maintained by the tax collections of our small community of however many homes we have in the village. Vandalism has been a large problem in the park, and the more structures will certainly mean more maintenance and more police watching or whatever else has to happen, which costs money. And finally, she just would like to say, let’s keep our little village park a little village park.

Wylie thanked Papatheodoropoulos and asked if she would mind if Wylie asked her a quick question. Papatheodoropoulos said she appreciates it, Wylie thinks she said Forte and Lamphier’s comment. Papatheodoropoulos said and Casey’s. Wylie asked which signs Papatheodoropoulos was speaking about. Forte said the Optimists. Papatheodoropoulos said she’s addressing the Optimists’s sign. Wylie said OK, that’s what she thought but she wanted to make sure. Signs in general. Papatheodoropoulos said it was all signs. Wyle said OK and thanked Papatheodoropoulos.

Wylie asked if anyone else had a public comment to make.

No comments.

Wylie said hearing no others, they will move on to FYI.

Agenda Item #6, FYI (Video time mark 0:04:04):

Wylie said she didn’t have anything and asked if anyone else had an FYI.

No comments.

Agenda Item #7, City Manager Report (Video time mark 0:04:11):

• • City Manager Report, February 12, 2024 (Page 3/37 of the council packet)
  • 02-01-2024 Letter from The Clarkston Area Optimist Club (Page 4/37 of the council packet)

Wylie said OK, Item #7 is the city manager’s report which is included in the document. As they can see, Smith was not there. This was a pre-planned absence. Wylie said she assumes everybody has read it in the agenda packet.

Wylie said there’s something about that Clarkston Area Optimist refund request. Wylie said you know, she’s going to read this, just because they’re going to talk about this.

(Wylie read Smith’s paragraph about the Clarkston Area Optimist refund request.)

Wylie said there is also an item from Smith about the status of the placemaking grant application, which is he has not received any notification and his request for an update has not been answered.

Wylie said there’s also an item about Depot Park staging area cleanup, which Smith is working on. He’s working on estimates and a timeline and cost estimates for this, and Wylie thinks, he says, the next meeting, February 26, he hopes to present a proposal.

Wylie asked if there were any questions or comments on the city manager’s report.

No comments.

Wylie said OK.

Quisenberry asked if they were going to discuss the Optimists. Wylie said they have an agenda item and asked if he wanted her to read the letter. But they have it on the agenda as, well, she thought they did have one on. Roth said she thought they did too.

(Unintelligible comment from a woman in the audience.)

Quisenberry said old business, Item #8.

Wylie said old business, she’s sorry. Yeah, there it is. Yeah. It’s under Item #9.

Wylie asked if there was anything else on the city manager’s report?

No comments.

Agenda Item #8 – Motion: Acceptance of the Consent Agenda as Presented (Video time mark 0:06:11):

• • 01-08-2024 – Final Minutes (page 5/37 of the council packet)
  • 01-22-2024 – Draft Minutes (page 7/37 of the council packet)
  • 02-12-2024 – Treasurer’s Report (page 10/37 of the council packet)
  • 01-01-2024 – 01-31-2024 – Check Disbursement Report (page 11/37 of the council packet)
  • Thomas J. Ryan, P.C. January Billing (page 21/37 of the council packet)

Wylie said OK, moving on to Item #8. It’s a motion, the Acceptance of the Consent Agenda as Presented, and this includes the final minutes from January 8th, the draft minutes from January 22^nd, Treasurer’s report from February 12^th, and the documents are included.

Wylie said she will need a motion and a second, and at that time, any discussion could come up afterwards.

Motion by Rodgers; second Forte.

Wylie asked if there was any discussion on the packet that’s included.

Roth said she just had a question just for clarification. (To Ryan), Roth said there was a, on his bill, February 5^th phone call from Mr. Patterson regarding Clarkson versus Miller, is that Miller, as in reference to the road or is that in – Ryan said individual. There’s a ticket that was issued by the Sheriff’s Department in the city. Roth said oh, OK. Roth thanked Ryan and said she was just curious. Ryan said yeah.

Wylie asked if there was anything else on the consent agenda. Any other questions or comments.

No comments or questions.

Wylie said OK, they have a motion from Rodgers and a second from Forte.

Motion to accept the consent agenda as presented passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said OK, and the motion was accepted.

Agenda Item #9, Old Business (Video time mark 0:07:24):

Item 9a – Motion: PC [Planning Commission] Recommendation regarding Optimist Sign in Depot Park (Video time mark 0:07:29):

• • Motion: Planning Commission Recommendation Re: Optimist Sign (page 24/37 of the council packet)
  • The Optimist Creed (page 25/37 of the council packet)
  • 02-05-2024 Draft Minutes, Planning Commission (page 26/37 of the council packet)

Wylie said moving on to Item #9, they have Old Business. This is a motion, Planning Commission Recommendation Regarding Optimist Sign in Depot Park. Let her get to that.

(Wylie read the motion.)

Wylie said they have the chairman of the Planning Commission [Derek Werner] and asked if Werner had anything to say.

Werner said they did discuss it at length, and Werner thinks the consensus was really, you know, some of the feedback from Ryan on setting a precedent, and they don’t want to go on that path as well as in a public space, giving a forum to special interest groups, that could be a slippery slope. So, for those primary reasons why, they recommend not putting it up. Wylie said OK.

Roth said and she just does want to add one thing because Smith answered the question whether or not there was a logo on the peace pipe [pole], which was out there, and there is a logo, it’s a Rotary logo at the top. So, there was this discussion, he confirmed there was in fact not a logo on it. There is. Werner agreed and said the Rotary peace pole did not come before planning – Roth agreed – (continuing), Werner said so, he doesn’t know what was discussed with the city council. Roth agreed and said she just wanted to clarify that because Smith did say in the meeting that there was no logo on that.

Casey asked how big it was. Roth asked if he meant the peace pipe [pole]. Roth said oh, it’s the peace pole. It’s made out of pipe. It’s at the very top. She doesn’t know the size of it. Casey said so, but it’s not large. Roth said it’s – (interrupting Roth), Werner said maybe four feet high. Roth said the pole itself, it’s right outside. Casey said yeah, but the logo itself. Roth said she didn’t know. She didn’t look at it or measure it. She actually walked down to see it because she didn’t realize that it was there. But it’s a four-sided pole and it says, she thinks, peace on four sides. Each side is in a different language. She thinks it’s German, Spanish, English, and she forgets what the other one was. French. (Casey made an unintelligible comment.) Roth said but anyway, it does actually have the logo of the Rotary on it. Wylie said OK.

Wylie said they have a motion before them. She thinks, if they are going to discuss it anymore, they need a first and a second. So, make the motion and a second and they’ll continue any discussion on this motion.

Motion by Casey; second Roth.

Wylie said OK, now, is there any other discussion on this.

Wylie said so, what they are making a motion, which they made a motion to, is to also acknowledge the positive work of the Optimist Club in the Clarkston area but to accept the recommendation of the Planning Commission and deny the Optimists’s request to install the Optimist creed sign in Depot Park. Casey agreed. Wylie said OK.

Rodgers said so, should they have like, should the, she doesn’t know, who would do this, them, the planning committee, but should there be some type of, ordinance is probably too big of a word, but some type of rule that there is no signage, or like, what she’s just worried about is, like, you know, three years from now when members here aren’t here and it comes, some other group wants to come in and, you know, will the precedent, like they’re kind of setting a precedent by not allowing it, but it’s just, because they’re all here, that they’ll remember that precedent until they’re no longer here. Should they do something more substantial than just vote on each one that comes before them.

Roth said they could. They actually talked about that at one time, to send it back to, she thinks they even talked about it with Ken [Ermer] and the Friends of Depot Park. But at the time you guys were considering the peace – Forte said pole – (continuing) Roth said whatever it is, she was in the audience, and she said she was afraid if they did, if they did unanimously agree to that, then would that be setting a precedent. Roth said that she had forgotten until somebody mentioned it at the meeting when this was brought before them and she said, oh yeah, you’re right, it does set a precedent.

Rodgers agreed and said, like, maybe they should have something somewhere written that – Wylie said that’s something they, as a council, can choose to do.

Roth said she thinks [Rodgers?] even mentioned it even could be construed to be political, which Roth doesn’t think that would be. Rodgers said but it could be. Roth said, but something else could be.

Casey said what do they want to do. And this goes toward what Papatheodoropoulos was talking about. Just keep the park simple. Roth agreed. Casey said they don’t want a bunch of crap in there to, he means, it’s a small park, and we’re essentially a rural community and he just thinks they need to honor what it is.

Rodgers said she thinks they have to temper that with what the community around that park, like, our, the City of the Village of Clarkston, all the residents, like, need to, and that’s why they’re having that forum in March, right, to hear what they want to, rather than just what, you know, each one of them up here, the twelve of them, and thirteen of them, that have spoken as to what they want and don’t want. They have to be real careful that, you know, they’re turning back a large sum of money, that’s what the people that voted them into these spots want them to do. You know, they do have to be really careful about that.

Roth said she thinks it could be done in a nice, it doesn’t have to be as Casey said, you know, look like crap in the park. She thinks it can be done, and she actually walked around the park to see because that one that was here was a little, you know, was – Wylie said oh, the demonstration sign that was here. Roth said yeah, the proposed sign. And she’s talked about it with Ermer too. It was just too big. But there are ways that it could be, because it is a nice – Rodgers agreed; what it says is nice – (continuing), Roth said what it says is very nice and she’s been to other parks that they have places, signs like that, and they have a bench, and you sit and ponder and, you know, enjoy the quiet or whatever. But there are places within what the Optimists have installed in the park that this could actually be put on the side of, so it’s not in your face like that big sign as you walk in or, but there’s a nice way, a gentle way, to do it. And she does agree with Casey. It should, they don’t want a bunch of stuff in the park. She likes the park the way it is. She likes the kids to be able to run and play amongst the things that are out there. She brings her grandkids there all the time and she loves that about Depot Park, but she thinks that there’s some way they could put signage like that.

Wylie recognized Quisenberry for a comment.

Quisenberry said to Rodger’s point. Is this something that they would ask the zoning board to come up with a, because it would be, he thinks, a zoning issue prohibiting signage in the park unless it, he doesn’t know if they want to throw that in there, and if it receives the council approval, but then that’s just going to throw the stuff back to them. If they don’t want it in there, then is the answer to zone it in such a way that there is no commercialized or political or any other type of signage allowed in the park. Casey said he thinks that might be a good approach.

Werner said right now, there isn’t a sign ordinance for city property. The sign ordinances are more for commercial or – (interrupting Werner), Quisenberry said so, something that they could develop from start. Werner said they would have to write something new. Quisenberry said signage on public property.

Wylie recognized Forte.

(An unidentified man said something unintelligible about signage on public property.)

Wylie said excuse her, for now, they are just trying to, (pointing to Werner), he was, he’s actually part of the discussion because of amending something, and they will open it up to the audience afterward.

Forte said she was just going to agree and say exactly what Werner said sounds good.

Wylie asked if anyone else on council, and Werner is part of the discussion, had anything else to say about this topic.

No comments.

Wylie asked if anyone else in the audience [had anything to say].

Wylie recognized an unidentified man who stepped up to the podium and said so, they’re saying that no public signs on property, was that exactly. Werner said there isn’t an ordinance currently on signs. (Pointing at Roth), the unidentified man said so what Roth is saying is that she would want to put a piece of signage somewhere where it would be available for the kids to see and be indoctrinated by it potentially. (Pointing at Roth), he said that’s, you want to put a sign on. Roth said no. The unidentified man asked who wants to put a sign on. Roth said no, he just came in at the end. The unidentified man asked who wants to put a sign up. Rodgers said the Optimist Club. The unidentified man asked what it would say. Rodgers said it’s their whole creed. The unidentified man asked what’s their creed. (Forte passed a piece of paper toward the unidentified man. The unidentified man made an unintelligible comment.) Forte said it’s long. The unidentified man said you want to get that whole creed on there. Rodgers said no, they do. (Unintelligible crosstalk.)

Wylie said excuse me, excuse me, excuse me. She’s trying to get order in the meeting. He can make a statement. They may or may not answer his questions. That’s their choice, but he may make a statement right now. He has three minutes to make a statement.

The unidentified man said he wants to ask a question first. Do they think it’s all right to be exposing kids to one sort of ideological principle and not all ideological principles. Casey said that’s the issue they’re addressing right now. The unidentified man asked how have they addressed it. Wylie said they are going to vote on it tonight. Casey said that’s the motion that was just made.

The man said OK, so he’s asking personally each one of them, how do they feel about that. Wylie said they are going to be voting on it very shortly. The unidentified man said they can’t say that now or do they want to wait until the vote. Wylie said she thinks almost everybody here has made a comment about it. The unidentified man said that’s pretty much all he had. Thank you.

While asked if anyone else had a comment.

Quisenberry asked Wylie to have the unidentified man identify himself. Wylie said he doesn’t have to.

Quisenberry said on this whole issue about signages in there, or anything else regarding this whole Optimist park grant money that they were given, because there’s plenty to say on that. But as far as the signage, if they’re going to just go ahead and look into asking the zoning board to come up with language that would prohibit postings in Depot Park then that addresses that part, but not the other part.

Wylie said she’s not sure, she doesn’t, she’s not sure if they have to go as far as dealing with, she means, actually, she thinks she’s correct, the city council would come up with new zoning ordinances. It wouldn’t be zoning. They have a Zoning Board of Appeals. Ryan said it would be the Planning Commission. Wylie said she’s sorry, Planning Commission. The Planning Commission would come up with that, OK. Ryan said right. And they had talked about this, he doesn’t know, months ago, about setting standards for use of public property and that was kind of precipitated before this by some of the other discussion they had last fall. And so, he means, he thinks that they should go, he was suggesting with planning. He could work with the planner and the Planning Commission relative to that language. He doesn’t know if it would be a zoning ordinance, it might be a police power ordinance, you know, it’s unknown.

Ryan said but the other thing he just wanted to say, he realizes that although Smith put in here about to return the money, it’s not on the agenda. Wylie said it’s not on the agenda and she misread it. Ryan said he doesn’t know if they want to, he means, they can unanimously amend the agenda if they want. Wylie agreed and said she thinks as soon as they finish this item, that’s what they ought to – (interrupting Wylie), Ryan said he thought it was going to be on there tonight too. Wylie said she thought it was.

(Unintelligible side comment from Quisenberry to Roth.)

Wylie said so, as soon as they finish this, she would like a motion that they go back and discuss the $25,000. Ryan said they probably should do some standards so they’re not doing this on an ad hoc basis. They should set criteria that are met relative – (interrupting Ryan), Wylie said which is what Rodgers was saying. Ryan agreed.

Wylie asked if there was any other discussion from either council or in the audience.

Quisenberry said regarding again the signage or – Rodgers said the Optimist sign. Wylie said signage. Right now, they’re just dealing with signage, and then as soon as they’re finished with that, they will try to amend, if everybody is agreeable, they can amend the agenda to talk about the $25,000 donation from the Optimist Club and then discuss that. Quisenberry said OK.

An unidentified man in the audience said is this paying for signage. Wylie said sorry. The unidentified man asked if we are paying for signage. Wylie said no, they would not be paying for it. The unidentified man said so, if he wanted to something in the park, some signage in the park, he lives around, do they live around the park? (Forte shook her head.) The unidentified man (unintelligible) what goes up in the park. Can he put up anything he wants in the park? Rodgers and Casey said no.

The unidentified man said it wouldn’t be just signage. If he bought some kind of (unintelligible). Is he allowed to put some signage up – (interrupting the unidentified man), Wylie said at this point, they’re not. They’re voting. They have requested to put a sign up.

The unidentified man asked why there is a vote at all. Wylie said because they have made the request. The unidentified man said OK. Wylie said they are examining their request – (unintelligible crosstalk from the unidentified man). Wylie said excuse me, they have made the request, they talked about it at the previous meeting – (interrupting Wylie), the unidentified man said (unintelligible) the request. Wylie said she’s sorry, if he’s not going to let her talk, she’s not going to talk. The unidentified man said this is (unintelligible) a request. Wylie said it’s a choice of city manager or the mayor, yes. The unidentified man said it’s a specific request. OK, he’s got that.

Wylie asked if anybody else had any discussion on this.

No further discussion.

Wylie asked DeLorge to take a roll call if she didn’t mind.

Rodgers asked what they are voting on. Wylie said they are voting on, let her go back to that item. Quisenberry said the last paragraph, where they want to put the sign up. Wylie said so, she’ll read it again, to acknowledge the positive work of the Optimist Club in the Clarkston area, but to accept the recommendation of the Planning Commission and deny the Optimist request to install an Optimist Creed sign in Depot Park. Rodgers said oh, right.

Wylie said OK, is everybody clear what they’re voting on. Casey said yes. Wylie said OK, so, DeLorge is going to do a roll call.

Casey voted yes.

Wylie said let her, if they say yes, they are denying the sign. Casey said correct. Wylie said OK. She knows Casey knows.

Lamphier, Quisenberry, Rodgers, Roth, and Wylie voted yes.

DeLorge said the motion is adopted.

Wylie said DeLorge overlooked Forte.

Forte voted yes.

DeLorge apologized.

Wylie said so, the motion is adopted. Thank you.

Agenda Item #10, New Business (Video time mark 0:25:34):

Wylie said OK, so the agenda has been amended and now they can address this matter. She made a motion to return the money, the $25,000 donation to the Clarkson Area Optimist Club as requested. Roth said and she seconds that.

Ryan said it should be a resolution. Wylie said a resolution, OK, because it’s involving money. OK, so it’s a resolution to do, OK.

Wylie said so now they need to have a motion to that resolution and a second to that resolution, because all they did just then was make a motion to amend the agenda. Now to deal with this matter of returning the money or not returning the money, they have to make a motion to do that.

Roth said OK, so she will make a motion to return the $25,000 to the Clarkston Area Optimists. Wylie said OK. Casey said as requested. Roth and Wylie said as requested. Roth said as requested by the letter on February 1^st.

Wylie asked if anybody would like to make a second.

Quisenberry asked if it matters if it’s in order or not in order. Lamphier said this is D now, right. Quisenberry said they put it on the agenda as D. Wylie said oh, that’s true. Quisenberry said they have to go through A, B, and C.

Wylie said OK, they’ll come back to it then. Thank you. They are going to do it after A, B, and C. Quisenberry said OK. Wylie said so if anybody’s not sure, she’s confusing everybody tonight. They have to do New Business A, New Business B, New Business C, then they’re going to go back to New Business D, which is this resolution to return the money as requested to the Clarkston Area Optimists Club.

Roth said good clarification. Thank you.

Item 10a – Resolution: Renewal of Agreement to Participate in the Canadian Goose Program (Video time mark 0:27:29):

• • Resolution – Renewal of Agreement to Participate in the Canadian Goose Program (page 27/37 of the council packet)
  • Application and Permit for Canada Goose Nest/Egg Destruction (page 28/37 of the council packet)

Wylie said OK. So now they are on Item #10a, Resolution: Renewal of Agreement to Participate in the Canadian Goose Program. Wylie said let her go back.

Casey said it’s actually Canada Goose. Wylie said Canadian Goose. OK. Casey said not Canadian. Wylie said it is Canada Goose. Casey is right. That’s their official name.

Wylie said so, this is the resolution, and this is a renewal of the agreement.

(Wylie read the motion.)

Wylie said they do have some paperwork which is attached which looks like it would probably be filled out by probably Smith. Well, it looks like some of that’s filled out already by the, she thinks that’s somebody involved with the Clarkston, with the Mill Pond Association. Roth said Steve Hargis, yes. Wylie said and some other information about the Canada goose, the nest and egg destruction.

Wylie said OK, she needs somebody to make a resolution, and then they’ll need a second.

Motion by Rodgers; second Casey.

Wylie thanked Rodgers and Casey and asked if there was any discussion from the council.

(Unintelligible discussion between Casey and Roth.)

Wylie recognized Quisenberry.

Quisenberry said they specifically mentioned the Clarkston Mill Pond, the Mill Pond area. Is there any way that they could include in that the Depot Park area, the waterway, or is that considered the Mill Pond area? If they’re in the waterway, the river, as it comes, you know, from the marshy area, would that be covered there. He thinks that they should probably address that area too, because there’s a problem with them all over in that play area as well.

Roth said this is done by the Mill Pond Association. Wylie said she believes they pay for it. Roth said that’s why it’s of no cost to (unintelligible crosstalk between Wylie and Rodgers). Rodgers said this doesn’t include Parke Lake – Roth said this is their own association on the Mill Pond. Wylie said they understand that. Roth said it’s her understanding.

Quisenberry said so, they couldn’t add this area of the park in with this then. Wylie said not for this particular one. Rodgers said they could do a separate one if they wanted. Roth said or maybe they could team up with them to get a better price if they were trying to add on whatever.

Rodgers said she thinks it’s free. Wylie said no. Roth said well, the association – Wylie said they pay for it. Rodgers said oh, she sees. Roth said it’s part of the association, as she understands it, it comes out of the association.

Quisenberry said it’s a shame that the worst area they have, if it included it. Casey said the worst area is Parke Lake. Rodgers said yes, that is 100% correct.

Wylie asked Rodgers if they had an association. Rodgers said not really. Roth said you don’t have an association. Rodgers said they have a group. Roth said they don’t have an association; that’s interesting. Casey said he didn’t think so. Rodgers said they need to. Roth agreed.

Wylie asked if there was any other discussion.

Wylie said even if Parke Lake has a problem, she would think any round of goose egg destruction would certainly aid in just keeping the total number of geese in the area, which she thinks, they’re a huge nuisance.

Wylie asked if there was any discussion from people sitting in the audience.

The same unidentified man making the earlier comments said he was curious why they think geese are such a huge nuisance. Wylie said because they poop all over the grass. The unidentified man said and that’s a big nuisance. Rodgers said it’s not good for the water either. Wylie said yes, it contaminates the water. It makes it unsanitary.

The unidentified man pointed toward council (in Rodger’s direction) and asked what her background was. Rodgers said she’s a nurse anesthetist. The unidentified man said OK, so you know nothing about water. That’s cool. Rodgers asked the unidentified man what his background was. The unidentified man said (unintelligible) science. Rodgers asked what the unidentified man knew about the feces solution. The unidentified man said (unintelligible) green on it, just making it look good (unintelligible) poison – Wylie said excuse me, excuse me, sir. (The unidentified man made some unintelligible comments.) Wylie said no. Excuse me, sir, but call to order. Wylie said she would like the unidentified man to keep his language cleaned up. This is a public meeting. She would like him to keep his language cleaned up. The unidentified man said this isn’t proper language.

An unidentified woman told Wylie to get the unidentified man’s name. Wylie said he doesn’t actually have to give his name. (To the unidentified man), Wylie said sir, if you’d like to give your name. The unidentified man said he’s just a concerned citizen.

The unidentified man said if (unintelligible) so many phosphates like grass, which is what they normally eat, yet still poisons and leeches off into the water, that is a function of what you’re feeding your grass with, not the geese existing.

Wylie thanked the man and asked if there was any other discussion from anybody else present.

No additional discussion.

Wylie said they have a resolution and asked DeLorge to call the roll for them.

Lamphier, Forte, Casey, Quisenberry, Rodgers, Roth, and Wylie voted yes.

Wylie said the motion is adopted unanimously. Thank you.

Item 10b – Resolution: Tree Removal and Trimming (Video time mark 0:34:14):

• • Resolution – Tree Removal and Trimming (page 30/37 of the council packet)
  • Comparison of Bids, City Easement Tree Removal and Trimming (page 31/37 of the council packet)
  • Estimate, Otto Tree Service, LLC (page 32/37 of the council packet)
  • Invoice, Independence Tree Care (page 36/37 of the council packet)

Wylie said our next item on the agenda is 10b, Resolution, Tree Removal and Trimming.

(Wylie read the resolution.)

Wylie said so, to continue with this, she needs somebody to make the resolution and then a second.

Motion by Forte; second Roth.

Wylie asked if there was any discussion from the council.

Casey asked where the $2,126 comes from. Ryan said it was a 10% contingency. (Unintelligible comment from Casey.) Wylie said she thought it was 5%. Ryan said excuse me, 5%.

Wylie said oh, and by the way, the quotes are attached. Casey said he’s looking at them. Wylie said so, there’s a 5%, that’s $2,025, which is highlighted in yellow, and then there’s a 5% contingency, and that’s where you get that $2,126.

Wylie asked if there was any other discussion from council.

No additional discussion.

Wylie asked if anyone in the audience wanted to discuss or make a comment.

No comments.

Wylie asked DeLorge to please take a roll call again.

Wylie, Rodgers, and Roth voted yes.

Quisenberry said he’s going to abstain. Wylie said he can’t. Continuing, Quisenberry said because one of these is in front of his house. (Laughter.) Wylie said he could still vote for it. Wylie said he can’t abstain. Ryan said he can ask to be recused and state it on the record. The council can vote if it’s something that would allow him to recuse himself from this because the matter is in front of his house. Quisenberry said last fall, he brought this up when he wasn’t on here as an issue that needs to be addressed so he thinks he should.

Wylie said she thinks recusal is a little different. Just so everybody on the council knows, they can’t just abstain from votes. They have to vote unless they’re recused for a conflict of interest. Ryan said it has to be a good reason. They have to decide if this is acceptable to you folks to let him recuse himself.

Wylie asked if they vote. Ryan said they should make a motion to recuse.

Wylie said she would make a motion to allow Quisenberry to recuse himself from this vote. Second Roth. Ryan said for the reasons stated.

The motion to recuse Quisenberry passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said OK, Quisenberry is allowed to recuse himself. So, continuing.

Lamphier, Forte, and Casey voted yes.

Wylie said OK, so the motion is adopted.

Item 10c – Discussion: Status Update on the February 27^th Primary Election (Video time mark 0:38:31):

Wylie said moving on. This is Item #10c, Discussion with status update on the February 27^th primary election. This is the presidential primary, and she believes DeLorge will speak on this.

DeLorge said yes. DeLorge said she has included in their packet the important dates coming up for this election happening on Tuesday, the 27th of February. The polls open at 7:00 a.m. and they will close at 8:00 a.m. [later corrected to p.m.] DeLorge said she’s also printed off, there’s a list on the back for residents, and it will be in the kiosk and on the website. DeLorge said she also included the times and addresses for the early voting locations. So, the early voting starts this Saturday, believe it or not, at 8:30 to 4:30, and Thursday nights it’s open till 8:00. So, noon to 8:00. And it starts on, it goes all the way from the 17^th, Saturday, and it ends on the 25^th on Sunday. Then Monday, they’ll have their council meeting, and then Tuesday, she has the election here.

Wylie said OK, and just to clarify it, people have to be registered to vote, but you don’t have to register specifically to go to an early voting site, is that correct? DeLorge said you have to be a registered voter – Wylie said a registered voter – (continuing), Delorge said no matter where you vote, but yeah, you have to register here with DeLorge. You can’t register at their early voting site. They won’t register people at the early voting site.

Wylie said so, any registered voter in Clarkston can go to these early voting sites. DeLorge said right. Wylie said OK.

Wylie asked if there were any questions from anybody, on council or in the audience, about the early voting.

No questions.

Wylie thanked DeLorge and said she knows it’s a huge burden. DeLorge said just a lot of change – Wylie said a lot of change – (continuing), DeLorge said to get used to.

NEW Item 10d – Motion to Return the $25,000 Donation to the Clarkston Area Optimist Club (Video time mark 0:40:40):

Wylie said OK, so now they’re going to go back to the item on the agenda that they added today and that is Item #10d, and this is a motion to, Wylie said she can’t read her own writing, what she wrote down here, to return the $25,000 donation to the Clarkston Area Optimist Club as requested.

Wylie said to continue with this, they need a motion and a second.

Roth said she will make a motion that they return the $25,000 check to the Clarkston Area Optimist Club as requested. Second Casey.

Wylie asked if there was any discussion from anybody on the council.

Rodgers said so, they would like this money back – Wylie said they gave us a letter – (continuing), Rodgers said until they, in lieu of, and then they’ll have the public comment, and they’ll decide what to do after public comment or that public discussion on March 11th. Wylie said they may or may not.

Wylie asked Ermer if he wanted to talk about it. Wylie said her understanding is they may or may not donate it again.

Ermer said he can’t say it any better than Wylie. The Clarkston Area [Optimists Club] Board wrote the letter and asked for the money back. They know that they’re going to have the public input. After they have that public input, he’s sure, you know, he will gladly take that information back to the Clarkston [Area Optimists Club] Board, and then they can make another decision. Wylie said OK.

Roth said they can turn it down or they can say yes, we’ll do this. Ermer said that’s right. Roth said and that’s what they’re going to do.

Wylie said so the letter says, and this is the letter from the Clarkston Area Optimists Club.

(Wylie read the letter that was attached to the city manager’s report.)

Wylie said by Friends of Depot Park, are they referring to the committee? Ermer said he’s not sure what they’re trying to say there. He’s assuming they are referring to the committee. He doesn’t know. Wylie said because it’s not capitalized. Ermer doesn’t know if they are trying to refer to like, undue pressure on the committee. Ermer said there isn’t.

(Wylie continued to read from the letter.)

Ermer said verbally, Debbie [Debra Berry, President, Clarkston Area Optimists Club] has said that she doesn’t want to close the door, OK. Wylie said OK. Ermer said that’s a verbal statement OK, that’s a verbal statement from Berry to Ermer.

Wylie asked if she [Berry] is on the board. Ermer said yes. Roth said she’s the president. Wylie said she knows she’s the president, but she was always, Wylie always kind of, sometimes, when people talked, it was like this board was a bunch of different people. Ermer said she’s on the board. Wylie said OK. All right. Ermer said he [Ermer] is not on the board.

Wylie asked if anybody else on the council wanted to discuss this.

Rodgers said she really doesn’t think they have a choice. They have, this is a philanthropic organization that gave them $25,000. They want the community to put a stamp on what they want and what they don’t want within the park. Wylie agreed. Rodgers said she would think that they are going to be supportive of that, but until that happens, they want their money back. Wylie agreed. Rodgers said, she means, they can’t really keep it. It’s not, you know – Roth said well, the whole idea of the Optimists too is to be spending money for the purpose of children. And right now, it’s sitting, and it’s not being used for anything. Rodgers said exactly. Roth said so, they have all sorts of, she means, they give scholarships for children, many things that this could be used for. Wylie said because Roth is on that. Roth said she’s not in it right now. She used to be on the board.

Rodgers said so ultimately, it could not come back to them (unintelligible crosstalk between Roth and Rodgers). Roth said it depends on, it got very crazy because it was in between different presidents of the Optimists, now they have different mayors that they’re dealing with, so it got very complicated. So, if depending on what the consensus is of the public then they can take that back to the board of the Optimists and they can say yay or nay, whether or not they think that’s something they want to go forward on. But for right now, for the money to just be sitting there and not be used for the purposes of what – Rodgers said of what it’s (unintelligible) – (continuing), Roth said the Optimists have lists of things that they do with the money, always for children.

Wylie recognized Quisenberry if he had a comment.

Quisenberry said he does. He was thinking of a word better than deplorable, but shameful. He thinks it’s shameful that in over six months they could not figure out a way to get around, to get out of their way, their own way to use something that was just beneficial to them. That this sat there, and it lingered for so long, and it wasn’t until early in January that he asked Smith what’s the status of this, what are they doing with it, it’s just sitting here, and he ran off, if ever Quisenberry heard of a more of a bureaucratic mess of well, they need to do this, then it has to go to the planning committee, and then they bring in the Friends of Depot Park, and then they have public meetings. And Quisenberry is just sitting there thinking this is absolutely absurd. If this is the process that they have to take to be able to take some sort of generous gift that somebody has given them and now all of a sudden, now they’re giving it back, and it’s nice to know that there’s a good chance they may get it, but there’s a chance they might not either. They’ve lost it for now. Hopefully they’ll get it back, but also what do they do next time? What is the process? And Quisenberry still is not sure that they have a process to be able to accept some philanthropic gift from somebody to be able to then use that as they see fit or as a condition of them giving it to them. In a nutshell, they get an “E” in in handling this matter and not being able to take money that people want to give to them to do something that is going to be very beneficial for the community, and they didn’t do it right. Quisenberry thinks they need to do something in the meantime to be able to know this is how they’re going to do it next time, so they don’t stink as bad as they did this time.

Rodgers said Quisenberry was absolutely right. This is a philanthropic group and anybody that is a part of a philanthropic group can donate money for specific causes. And we’re giving back a huge sum of money and potentially additional monies because it has taken them so long. Rodgers said she wholeheartedly agrees with Quisenberry.

Quisenberry said it’s his understanding that there was more money that was discussed. Roth agreed. Quisenberry said probably ten times this amount here that was going to come to them, but it didn’t come their way because they wanted to see how this was going to play out and it didn’t play out well.

Wylie said she doesn’t know what the steps Quisenberry is referring to exactly, but governments operate differently than private individuals. Quisenberry said he understands that. Wylie said he does, and there are steps to go through. And there were people on council who had been and continue to be opposed to much development in Depot Park. This issue never came to them on council ever. Wylie said the first discussion they had about any big improvements in Depot Park, her recollection was October, and it was not about this $25,000. Wylie said she thinks everybody on council was aware of it.

Wylie said but anyway, those of you in the audience raising your hands, discussion is first among council. Then they open it up to people in the audience. Quisenberry said as they have.

Roth said it was confusing. Wylie said OK. Roth said the whole gist of it, the way that it went back and forth, and it was very confusing, and it was as she said, she thought it was just time to sort of put it to bed because nobody could figure out where the other people were going. And so, the Optimist Club is getting very frustrated – Wylie said that’s very understandable – (continuing), Roth said with having this amount of money sitting and nobody’s doing anything with this. Quisenberry said it’s understandable. Roth said that’s very understandable.

Quisenberry said part of his discussion is let’s not make this happen again. Let’s put something in place so that they know if they do get something, when they do, and if there are people out there or entities that feel the desire to donate to the city that they know and they love then there’s a process for it so that they can implement it immediately.

Wylie recognized Forte for a comment.

Forte told Werner to correct her if she’s wrong, but they do have a capital improvement plan, and if there were things that, like, in that plan, they’ll have things that if they get financial donations, they could use it for that. So, they could keep a list so when they do have rare occurrences like this, there’s already an existing list that’s approved and could get quickly gone through.

Quisenberry said but a capital improvement is entirely different. It’s a budgeted item that lists, like Chet [Pardee, resident] says, the wish list. Call it whatever you want, but capital improvements are budgeted funds, whereas they’re talking about donated funds.

Werner said well, the capital improvement plan includes donated funds. If you go through it and read it, probably 75% of the big capital expenditures are using donated funds for future projects, so, that money, as Forte said, would have gone into this if it wasn’t earmarked. This money was earmarked for a specific purpose in the park, which they don’t know if people want that. That’s what the delay was. It wasn’t so much they don’t want to spend their money and they can’t find a use for it. It was they want this money for this purpose and Werner thinks council came back, planning had discussions of they don’t know if the residents want what the donation for. That’s why (unintelligible).

Wylie said she thinks that things would have happened a lot faster if it weren’t for the fact that they had a changeover in mayor right in the middle of all that. And that really pushed everything back a couple of months. Roth and Quisenberry agreed. Wylie said so, you know, though none of their faults, it’s just that’s what happened. Roth said it was just sort of a strange situation at the time – Wylie agreed – (continuing), Roth said and unfortunately, this is what happened.

Wylie asked if anyone on the council had anything else.

Wylie recognized the same unidentified man in the audience for an additional comment.

The unidentified man said so, what he heard this man [Quisenberry] say was basically he doesn’t want any funding donated in question. They should just take it and put whatever they said because they want it. Quisenberry said he couldn’t have heard him any more incorrectly. The unidentified man said he’s stupid. Wylie said he didn’t say that, but she thinks – the unidentified man said he doesn’t think he is, but asked if Quisenberry could explain it like he’s a toddler.

Quisenberry said what he said was that in the event that any unexpected money gets donated to the city through some source that council has a method of approving, accepting, and then allocating that into use. The unidentified man said he’s got it, so is Quisenberry saying approving, allocating, and accepting these things, that means basically backdooring (unintelligible). Quisenberry said no. Don’t say backdooring.

The unidentified man said (unintelligible) who here on the board was involved with this move. Wylie said they don’t have to answer his questions. The unidentified man said they know he can guess, right? So, he guarantees (unintelligible) she is, and she is. Wylie said she can tell him right now he could not be more be more wrong. (Unintelligible crosstalk.)

Wylie recognized Cara Catallo for a comment.

Carallo said yeah, she was just going to say that she thinks the wording Quisenberry used was shameful, like, and sort of pointing at their staff. And Catallo feels like that’s misdirected. She’s sad that they’re pulling the money away because she was hopeful that they would finally get the playground equipment for children, something she heard was going to happen at (unintelligible) or maybe just five years ago, she can’t remember, whenever they were meeting at the church still, but she would like to say she would not be pointing fingers out and sort of shaming their staff.

Catallo said she thinks that the direction would be directly at their former mayor who is meeting with various groups behind the scenes. She sat here when he had like, he had a PR [public relations] move where he posed for photos in front of the council, blocking the rest of council out with the Optimists, so Catallo thinks it was a matter of, sort of the mayor making, sort of deals behind the scenes and then coming forward with the elaborate plans.

Catallo thinks it’s important that our community decides if they even want a picnic pavilion. She’s sad that it sounds like the Optimists only wanted to donate the money for a picnic pavilion. But she doesn’t think they can say, like, shame on everybody that they didn’t just immediately break ground and put up something that the rest of the community might not want. And Catallo doesn’t even think that a picnic pavilion is necessarily like, you know, the kids are dying for a picnic pavilion. Really? She just feels like, you sort of, you complain and argue and point fingers, but she thinks it’s misdirected, and she’s gone to the planning commission meetings, and she’s gone to the Friends at Depot Park meetings, and she’s gone to the city council meetings. So, she thinks because he’s come into this a little bit late, he’s missing some of the back story, which is a very rich back story, but mostly regarding a mayor that decided to sort of wheel and deal on his own and not involve the council. A mayor who thought he was above council instead of an equal member of council.

So, Catallo feels like she’s disappointed that they’re pulling out. She wishes that they could have waited to see what the community wanted, but she suspects it’s all because of the picnic pavilion, which to her, when you read that creed, it doesn’t seem very optimistic, that it’s like we’re taking our money and going. But she’s hopeful that maybe somehow, they’ll donate again, and they’ll finally get that piece of equipment for children with special needs. That’s what she’s hoping for.

(Unintelligible crosstalk. The unidentified man began speaking.)

Wylie asked the unidentified man not to speak until he’s recognized. (More loudly), Wylie repeated her request to the unidentified man that he not speak unless he’s recognized.

To Catallo, Quisenberry said if she thought he’d pointed at somebody specifically, you know, that’s not the case. He meant as a whole, as a community, they were not able to pull this thing off without losing it. That’s the part, and he was just involved, he sat in that chair right in front of her throughout those whole meetings, and when they were talking about different options, what to do with it and whatever, he was the one that noticed that they did not have playground improvements on it, and he asked it to be put on there then. So, it isn’t trying to point a finger at any one person. It’s a matter of saying it’s a shame they didn’t have a way to see this through.

Catallo said she’ll be quick. There are processes, it’s just that the former mayor chose not to or wasn’t aware of them. So, she’s hopeful that now they know and can do it the correct way. And Roth and Catallo have talked about this, she loves this little park. She thinks it’s great, like, she doesn’t know, she didn’t think it needed a giant new sign or (unintelligible) but she’s hopeful. Wylie thanked Catallo.

Wylie said she realizes that there’s a lot of people, including herself, who would like to see some equipment here for special needs, and she’s been to some of the, she’s talked with some of the Friends of Depot Park, and she realizes that there are obstacles still to get to that point. So, you know, hopefully they could see something like that in the future.

Wylie asked if anybody else had anything to say on this topic before they have a vote.

No additional comments.

Wylie asked if they made it a – Ryan said it has to be a resolution. Ryan said it’s a resolution. Ryan said yes. Wylie said OK.

Wylie said so, again, this is a resolution to return the $25,000 donation from the Clarkston Area Optimist Club as requested. And they’ll call for a roll call again.

Casey, Forte, Lamphier, Quisenberry, Rodgers, Roth, and Wylie voted yes.

Wylie said and the resolution is adopted unanimously.

Agenda Item #11, Adjourn (Video time mark 0:58:19):

Wylie said and let her double check. Quisenberry said it is. Wylie said so, they are now to Item #11 to adjourn.

Wylie said she would take a motion to adjourn the meeting.

Motion by Roth; second Forte.

Motion to adjourn passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said they are adjourned. It looks like 8:00 exactly. It’s 7:58. Forte said great. Wylie said thank you everybody.

Resources:

• • Link to video recording here 
  • 02-12-2024 – City Council packet