Category: Independence Township

Introduction:

Links to the video recording and the council packet are at the bottom of this post. Please note any errors or omissions in the comments. Anything noted in brackets was inserted by Clarkston Sunshine.

Agenda Item #1, Call to Order (video time mark 0:00:00):

Laura Rodgers said it’s 7:00, we’re going to get started.

Agenda Item #2, Pledge of Allegiance (video time mark 0:00:02):

Rodgers said we’re going to rise for the Pledge of Allegiance.

(Pledge said.)

Agenda Item #3, Roll Call (video time mark 0:00:27):

(To Angela Guillen, city clerk), Rodgers said would you like to do a roll call, please.

Laura Rodgers, Al Avery, Gary Casey, Amanda Forte, Erica Jones, and Ted Quisenberry were present.

Sue Wylie was absent.

Agenda Item #4, Approval of Agenda – Motion (video time mark 0:00:43):

Rodgers said so can I have a motion to approve the agenda.

Motion by Jones; second Avery.

(Rodgers didn’t ask for discussion.)

Motion to approve the agenda passed by unanimous voice vote.

Rodgers said the motion passes.

Agenda Item #5, Public Comments (video time mark 0:01:00):

[Though public comments can sometimes irritate the city council, there is value to both the council and the public in hearing them. While they can’t eliminate public comments entirely without violating the Open Meetings Act, your city council has occasionally decided not to acknowledge public comments during a city council meeting unless the person submitting the comments also appears at the meeting (in-person or electronically) to personally read them. In the past, members of the public have been cut off for exceeding the city council’s arbitrary three-minute time limit (it’s arbitrary because no time limits are required by the Open Meetings Act).

If your public comments were submitted to the council but not read, or if you tried to make public comments but your comments were cut short, please email them to clarkstonsunshine@gmail.com and I will include them in my informal meeting summaries either under public comments or under the specific agenda item that you want to speak to.]

Rodgers said next is public comments.

(Rodgers read the rules for public comments.)

Rodgers said anybody have any public comments.

No comments.

Rodgers said nobody online.

[City manager] Smith said nobody online.

Rodgers said I don’t have any public comment.

Rodgers hearing none, we’ll go on.

Agenda Item #6 – FYI: (video time mark 0:01:45):

Rodgers said Item #6 on the agenda is FYI. Does anybody have anything that they did not send me for your information? No? All right.

Agenda Item #7 – City Manager’s Report (video time mark 0:01:58):

• • 03-23-2026 City Manager Report (page 3/28 of the council packet)

Rodgers said City Manager’s report. Rodgers recognized Smith.

Smith said so, just a few things to report this time.

Smith said the brick wall on Main Street is crumbling. This is right at the corner of Waldon and Main. I’ve basically determined from talking to MDOT [Michigan Department of Transportation], talking to our city engineer, and to the homeowner that this is in the road right of way, not on his personal property, so that means it’s either for us to maintain or MDOT. MDOT, I’ve talked to them. They insist it’s not their responsibility. Their point is that it was actually constructed before M15 was reconstructed back in 2001. So, they’re saying it’s our responsibility. So, I am currently in the process of getting some quotes to replace or repair that wall. Not sure what’s going to be needed, but it is leaning, and several of the bricks have started to crumble. So, there’s a stone wall further south, and that’s doing fine. Other than a couple stones, it’s doing fine, but the brick wall for some reason is failing.

Smith said Pinwheels for Prevention – (interrupting Smith), Quisenberry said before you leave that, I’ve got a question. Smith said yes. Quisenberry said if it’s either going to be the homeowner or a governmental entity that is responsible for it, and that’s an MDOT road, and they said that it was in place before they did the reconstruction of M15, which they did, then why, how could it possibly be ours? Smith said well, it’s not on the homeowner’s property. It’s been surveyed. The homeowner himself paid for a survey, and the stakes are visible. Quisenberry said OK, that’s clear. It’s not his. Smith said so, it’s clear that it’s not his. So, it’s either ours or MDOT’s. MDOT says we didn’t install it. So, I’m not sure who did. I assume back in the day that the city decided to install this. Maybe when some grading was done, and maybe they needed some retention.

Casey said is that in front of the Sutherland house? Smith said it’s one south. It’s the little blue house. Casey said oh. Smith said they used to call it the purple house, but it’s blue now. Casey said yeah, that was, that was a B & B [bed and breakfast] or something, right? Smith said they were trying to make it an Airbnb, but it didn’t get approval. Casey said yeah. OK. It’s in front of that house. Smith  said it is in front of that house.

(To Smith), Quisenberry said I understand the explanation you were giving me. It’s the same as the first one you said the first time, but it still doesn’t make any sense. If it’s on an MDOT property, right? It’s not the homeowner’s. Where does the city come in to be responsible? Smith said well, MDOT will tell you, and they’ve told me this multiple times, namely most recently with the aprons on Main Street that are all potholes and we need to replace. They said, even if we installed it, we never or rarely ever attach to that agreement to install that a maintenance agreement. So, they said, we’ll install it as a one-time gift, if you will, and from there on out, it’s your responsibility to maintain it. So, they said that’s what is the case of the aprons, and they’re saying the same for this brick wall. Even if they did install it at some point in time because they needed to get the sidewalk back from the road, which I suspect is what happened, they pushed it back and they needed a retaining wall. Maybe they even installed it or had a contractor install it, but they make it very clear that they are not responsible for maintenance. Quisenberry said make it clear verbally or by some sort of documents that we can’t dispute that were in place when it was done? Smith said well, they say unless it’s called out to the affirmative that they do, that they will maintain it into perpetuity, and they said that’s extremely rare for MDOT to do something like that, unless it’s called out like that, then the default answer is that it’s up to the community to maintain it going forward.

Avery said so, there’s a piece of paper somewhere that calls out that? Quisenberry said that’s what I keep asking for. Rather than what they say. Smith said yeah. I haven’t found that in our records. I have looked for it. I’ve asked our city engineer for it. He says that’s common practice. (To Gerry Fisher, city attorney), Smith said I don’t know if you’ve run into this in legal agreements, but they said that’s very, the city engineer is saying, it’s very common for maintenance to be the responsibility of the municipality going forward. Avery said but we still have to do it with their permission. Smith said yeah. Avery said which seems kind of odd, right?

Fisher said is it in the right of way? Smith said it is in the right of way.

Quisenberry said why can’t we ask for some sort of documentation that shows us how and why we’re responsible? Instead of them just saying it. Smith said I can get it in writing from MDOT. It’s just a verbal conversation I had with my MDOT rep. But I can get it in writing. Quisenberry said more than just them saying it in writing, but documenting it with some sort of proof that it is, rather than just saying it isn’t ours. Because then if we give something back to them and sign by the city and say it isn’t ours, then what are you going to do? There’s got to be something to show who’s responsible. And I can’t understand an entity like MDOT saying we’ll do this but we’re not going to maintain it. We’ll fix the roads. We’ll repave I-75 and put up barricades so you don’t run off the road. But then when a truck does run off the road and breaks the barricade, they come back and fix it. It’s part of their responsibility.

Jones said but that’s two different things. Smith said yeah, I understand your point, but in the case of, say, a sidewalk, they might have replaced all those sidewalks. In fact, they did, when they moved in Main Street in 2001. But they’re saying maintenance is not theirs, so that sidewalk gets heaved by a tree root or whatever, it’s going to be on us to maintain it. (To Quisenberry), Smith said but I understand your point and I’ll get it in writing.

Jones said well, before we get anything in writing, do we not have any documentation from 2001 when all this went down about like what was being installed? Have we gone back to look through our own records? Smith said I’ll confirm that with the city engineer. That’s what they told me, that it’s probably going to be on the city to do this. But I’ll make sure they confirm that as well because usually on the drawings themselves, they’ll make notations that says to be maintained by the municipality. Jones said yeah, because it would be good to know what we originally signed up for and that sort of thing, and who actually did what before we go, you know – Smith said yeah. Jonse said so  we have the proper context.

Avery said along those lines, but different, I read somewhere that they’re going to start construction on 75 and they’re going to block the two exits again. Quisenberry said all of northbound. Smith said and Dixie Highway. Avery said yeah. So, we’re going to have – (interrupting Avery), Smith said well, the good news is they’re not narrowing it or closing it or pushing all of it over to one side or the other. It’s just those Dixie Highway entrances and exits that they didn’t finish last fall. So those will be closed and then further north, my understanding, up close to Grand Blanc, if you’ve driven up there you see the center median is not finished. It’s just temporary center median they put in. So, they need to finish that, so my understanding is they’re going to put the two inside lanes, close those two inside on both north and south, eliminate from three lanes to two during that time when they finish that median. How much time is involved in doing all this? I haven’t seen an estimate from MDOT, but – (interrupting Smith), Avery said I read through June. Smith said OK.

Avery said but I guess it really comes down to whether or not these changes trip the apps and are telling people to get off and shoot down Dixie Highway and come through Clarkston. Smith said well, if they’ve got again a bulk of people that are coming in from, say, Springfield or Davisburg that come down Dixie Highway and hope to get on southbound 75 by Bordines there, because if that entrance ramp is closed, then they’re going to go to Plan B, which is down Holcomb and through town again. So, yes, it’s possible. Shouldn’t be as many, because people north of that, by Grange Hall Road, should still be open. No change to that, I understand at all. So, people that are north of Davisburg could still get on at Grange Hall Road or East Holley. Avery said yeah, I think the problem last year was that people coming southbound would get to exit 106 and their map apps would tell them to get off there a quicker way. So, if it triggers again like that, we’re screwed again. Because we can’t get them to change that. Smith said we can’t get them to change that. Quisenberry said and the people from Holley and Fenton that wanted to get on 75 couldn’t until they used Holcomb Road. Avery said yeah, so there’ll be less of them. So that’s helpful, I hope.

Smith said OK. Pinwheels for Prevention. Just letting you know that that’s coming up, the month of April is Blue Pinwheel month, so those have been planted throughout the community. So, we have our pinwheels. We’ll plant those soon.

Smith said and then I will be going to the Circuit Court trial in April. Casey said is there a time? Smith said I haven’t seen times yet, no. This is going to be down at the 1200 building on Telegraph Road. Casey said yeah.

Casey said do we know the judge? Smith said no. [The judge is Martha Anderson.]

Quisenberry said so it is going to trial? Smith said it’s going to trial. Quisenberry said wow, OK.

Casey said is it going to be a bench or jury trial, do you know? Smith said I understand jury trial. Casey said so maybe it’s jury selection. Smith said yeah. They said they let me go if I didn’t need to be there for the selection of the jury. Because that can be time-consuming, as you probably know, but yeah, it is going to trial, and I’ll be over this. Rodgers thanked Smith.

Rodgers said anybody else have any other thing?

No comments.

(To Smith), Rodgers said did you have anything else? Smith said no, that was it.

Rodgers said anybody have anything else for Smith.

No comments.

Rodgers said OK.

Agenda Item #8 – Consent Agenda (video time mark 0:13:28):

• • 02-23-2026 Final Minutes, Regular City Council Meeting (page 4/38 of the council packet)
  • 03-09-2026 Draft Minutes, Regular City Council Meeting (page 6/38 of the council packet)
  • 03-23-2026 Treasurer’s Report (page 8/38 of the council packet)
  • 03-17-2026 Revenue and Expenditure Report for the Period Ending 02-28-2026 (page 9/38 of the council packet)
  • Rosati, Schultz, Joppich & Amtsbuechler, February 2026 Invoices (page 19/38 of the council packet)

Rodgers said next up is the consent agenda. Final minutes of the February 23, 2026, regular meeting; the draft minutes of the March 9, 2026, regular meeting; and the treasurer’s report for March 23, 2026. Do I have a motion to approve the consent agendas?

Motion by Jones; second Quisenberry.

Rodgers said is there any discussion from council.

No comments.

Rodgers said the audience out there.

No comments.

The motion to accept the consent agenda was approved by unanimous voice vote.

Rodgers said it passes.

Agenda Item #9, Unfinished Business (video time mark 0:14:23):

Rodgers said next is unfinished business. I don’t see anything on there. Anybody have any that we missed?

No comments.

Agenda Item #10, New Business (video time mark 0:14:34):

Rodgers said OK, new business.

Item #10a – Discussion: DPW [Department of Public Works] Update with Jimi Turner [DPW Supervisor] (video time mark 0:14:35):

Rodgers said first is Discussion, DPW update with Jimi Turner.

Smith said so, Turner, if you haven’t met Turner, he’s a very talented DPW supervisor and he does a wide array, of course, maintenance throughout the city but also maintains the equipment, very skilled in his technological skills on maintaining equipment, so mechanical skills I should say. So, we had said in a previous meeting maybe there’s time to have Turner come in if you haven’t met him to introduce you and then let Turner just tell you kind of what a normal day looks like for a DPW team. And then I’ll add on if I see things that I think we should do.

Jimi Turner:

Turner said thank you. It’s all kind of new so I apologize if I’m a little awkward. I guess just update of kind of where we’re at right now, I guess I’ll start with. We just finished up obviously winter and it was a rough one to say the least.

To some people’s perspectives it was not so bad, but the actual consistency of the snow was probably the toughest thing this year, just snow almost every day but we had a two-month stretch of pretty much snow every day required plowing and salting. So, tough winter for equipment and us but we pushed through, we got it and survived. Just got to the end of it, started to get caught up for spring stuff now so we’re starting to do some park cleanup, road patching, trash pickup, just everything we can find right now that’s letting snow, snow is melting up now as you see.

We’re currently doing some training on the days that the weather is not permitting us to be outside as much, so we have arborist training we just did, kind of some basic one-on-one arborist training, we’ve been, there’s a kind of class that we did through the Michigan Green Industry Association a couple weeks ago. We’re also completing our CPR and first aid training currently and we just finished, or about to finish our pest-related training which will be like our pesticide application certification and licensing for stuff like buckthorn and phragmite and a few other things that we treat here in the park. Smith said this was a recommendation from the biophilic committee is that we see if we can bring this work in-house. We’ve always contracted this out but they said it’s really, once you get a sense for what needs to be done, it’s pretty simple work but we’re paying contractors some pretty big money to spray for phragmites or cut and treat buckthorn. Turner said we’ve worked with some of the companies that we’ve contracted to do it here in the past and so we know the processes now we’re just working towards having the same licensing certifications they have so that we can do it without necessarily having to third party out all those, I see not all of it but some of it.

Let’s see, with that pretty much going into just getting caught up I guess in the winter so a lot of maintenance in the vehicles that are kind of behind right now. We’ve been discussing my laundry list of repairs that are going to be happening here pretty or replacements. (Unintelligible) is getting on the older end of its life at this point now I think I kind of inherited some – Smith said older equipment – (continuing), Turner sold older equipment, yeah I’m getting to the point now where it’s starting to be more of a maintenance concern than it is, you know, it’s starting to affect the day-to-day operations to a point so there is some discussion with that going on right now. Smith said we’re always looking at kind of where is that break-even point where it doesn’t make sense, I mean Turner’s very talented and can do a lot of, 90% of the work in-house even on the big international harvester truck but at what point does it make sense to sell that piece of equipment when it still has some value. I’m not talking about the International harvester, the big truck, but the Ford 550 – (interrupting Smith), Turner said the smaller truck’s the biggest concern right now. Smith said that he that’s what 14 years old now – Turner said I believe so, 2014. Smith said it still has some value on the resale market but Turner could continue to maintain it, we could get another 10 years out of it but do we want to do that because there’s more and more time on Turner’s part and parts and whatnot we’re willing to maintain that, so we’re looking at the break-even on this. I’ve talked to the township that does, they lease their DPW trucks they’re going more to a lease than a purchase, so I think that’s something we want to look into as well it may make more sense to be leasing than purchasing.

Turner said we do have a pretty heavy ta-, or maintenance bill, possibly coming up in the next four years, so it’s kind of, you know, at what point do you keep dumping money into one or do you possibly take that money in something newer, hopefully something that requires a little less down time and maintenance, because with it being our main truck, the hardest part is affording the down time more so than anything because it kind of puts us almost at a dead stop as far as doing stuff around town is concerned. We’ve got a truck that’s only really suitable for salting and sometimes we’ll do the tree work, but we don’t really use it for day-to-day getting around town stuff, so that’s that.

Forte said do you have any plans of getting the ATV or the side-by-side. Smith said yeah, the used side-by-side. Turner said the used side-by-side, new to us, working out good is definitely a huge help, something we probably should have had many years ago in my personal opinion, just from this year not having to walk every single place you go around. It’s a nice backup for the truck as well. We are able to do stuff in the road without necessarily having to be so intrusive with traffic and necessarily being in the road, we can actually get off on the curb a little bit, so safety-wise it’s been a lot better. Definitely a huge upgrade to what we were doing in the past with just using the dump truck for everything, which was longer, less safe, harder, more physical just getting stuff in and out of it, you’ve got to climb (unintelligible), you know. That’s been probably the biggest positive we’ve had in a while. It’s probably made everything a lot easier and just made things get done faster too. Our efficiency has gone up quite a bit just from the beginning of the year. You’ve got to go quicker, turn around faster, unload faster, come back faster, all that kind of stuff and the traffic doesn’t affect you quite as badly. You can get through the alley with trucks there and you know, stuff gets backed up around here, all last year all last summer, with all that traffic from Main Street going on it made every little thing we had to do just take forever. I got one sign to put up over there, it’s 30 minutes of work but it took us 45 minutes to an hour just to get there, and then heaven forbid I forgot the shovel or something you know. So, it’s nice to be able to snake around town a little bit, take back roads, sneak around a little bit and get to where you’ve got to go without having to necessarily deal with normal day-to-day traffic.

As far as what’s coming up, we’re about to start doing some street sweeping, obviously it’s something that we do right around this time of year. Just waiting for it to dry up a little bit. The wetter it is, the harder it is on the machine, so it’s kind of a sweet spot which I look for.

Other than that, park cleanup will be coming up here pretty soon as far as just spring cleaning, leaves, branches getting kind of opened up for spring. We do plan on removing and replacing the mulch in the playground this year pretty soon, sooner than later hopefully it’s been something that’s been on the docket for a little while now, and we wanted to get to it last year. It didn’t quite happen, so we kind of just put some mulch down where it was needed at the time being but we’re definitely at a point now where we just keep dumping mulch in a hole essentially so we want to take the time to prep it right, strip it down a little bit, place an actual fabric liner that will separate the soil from the mulch a little bit, hopefully make our mulch last a little bit longer and maintain the required depth of mulch that is required. (An unidentified person made an unidentified comment about the mulch.) That’s one of our projects coming up here pretty soon.

Tree trimming obviously is always something we’re focusing on, especially this time of year. We didn’t get much done last summer, unfortunately we had other projects, but the year before that we did a lot, so this summer I want to try to get caught back up at that. East Washington being a big focus, probably right off the bat, right where all the parallel, I guess, street parking is, up to Buffalo maybe a little bit past Buffalo too now that I think about it, there’s a couple trees down that way. But there’s concerning trees just about everywhere in town right now. I’m sure people have noticed that they are not looking stellar especially the older silver maples that we have. There’s quite a few of those that are not great, so probably see a few of those coming down this year. at least some big branches coming out of some of the ones that are not doing great. Forte said when you take the trees down, will you just make a list and then I’ll add them to the tree committee’s list for replacements. Turner said yeah, definitely.

Forte said and then I have like one more overarching question and then one more specific question. Well first off, thank you for everything with the snow.  I feel like whenever I was up with the baby, you guys were out, and like, I was like I can’t believe they’re awake. Turner said yeah. Forte said and then, so the first question I had, like, is there anything as council like can do to support you guys or help you guys out. Turner said that’s a good question. I’ve never really thought about it if I’m honest. It’s kind of a first for me. I generally, I guess I’ve never really considered what can council do for me. I kind of just go to Smith, my boss, with my questions and I guess if it needs to come to council, he takes it to council and you know, if it doesn’t, you know, (unintelligible) two things are always going to be I’m pushing for my department to always have better equipment, pay, and quality of life, so I mean I have nothing specific but those are the things I’m always trying to do is just make my department be as big and as good as any big city out there. I know we’re a small town, small budget, but I try to operate in a way that, you know, makes us comparable to Royal Oak or Rochester for what we do have and yeah, so I guess as I think of stuff, we’ll definitely ask I guess. But I just never really, you know, more or less work with what I have. You know, I guess I’ve gotten really used to that. I’m just now starting to do the hey, I actually could have used this five years ago, you know, instead of just making it work with what I had. So, I guess I’ll start trying to be focused more on that.

Forte said I know I worked at the maintenance department at Michigan State. They have a big infrastructure department – Turner said right – (continuing), Forte said and they would have annual conferences where people could come and they would show how the university was running on the maintenance side of things. I know the green industry conference, they have like lessons and lectures and blah blah blah but like it might be worth looking into some of the resources that they have. Turner said yeah we actually just did a tour with the Birmingham DPW not too long ago actually. We were there for an ISA [International Society of Arboriculture?] meeting but also while we were there they did a DPW presentation of just how they do things. Birmingham obviously is, got everything, there’s nothing they don’t have, money to throw at everything. But it was cool to see some equipment and processes that I would have even fathomed. The stuff that wow I didn’t even know that existed let alone that there was a solution for it or a whole process or some things, you know. So, yes I agree. In fact, we just found Farmington Hills DPW has a, we do sewer storm drain cleaning trainings for MSQ4 – Smith said MS4 [Municipal Separate Storm Sewer Systems] – (continuing), Turner said so throughout the year we do a couple of these different trainings just to keep up to date with how to do these inspections but also to maintain our requirements to be part of MS4. So, one of the upcoming ones is at the Farmington Hills DPW for drain inspection training, illicit discharge, but also once you get, while we’re there they’re doing a DPW tour of their department as well.

Forte said yeah, I think like maybe we can like think bigger of like how we can help our residents more and like really communicate with our residents and that could even be like, like you guys are already doing all these things but just making sure our residents know what you guys are doing. Turner said yes, I agree that’s a huge opportunity I think, for sure. Forte said yeah and then like if there’s additional opportunities to offer more services long term, like I keep bringing up doing sidewalks but if there’s a mechanism for us to do that somehow that would be a value added. Turner said those things get brought to me often by Smith, often from, well I mean I’ve had residents come and ask me, and you know, I used to work at a large landscape company that handled accounts like that, so generally speaking, the answer is always going to be money, you know what I mean. People always ask me a lot can we do this how can we do that. Well it’s money. There’s no magic wand or you know I’m pretty much at a max of what my output is as far as my department, my people, there’s just two of us, you know, so as far as doing more, you know, I don’t really see there is no equipment or that’s going to just make us do these miracles, you know, it’s always going to be, I can make anything happen but we have the money. That’s all it’s ever going to boil down to. Forte said well, even between that and doing meetings and stuff like that if we were to offer that to the residents would they be willing to pay on the annual charge for that like. Turner said that’d be awesome. I would. Forte said I mean I would and I mean that could be something that we put on the ballot, you know what I mean. Turner said yeah, and that could be something you third party, you know, you could have a company that offers to the city a discount if they come through on these dates just once a week, a year, or something. You know, if your leaves are at the curb on that date, you paid your $100, they suck them up or something like that. I know, I think, Royal Oak does something like that. We’ve got a few other municipalities that have things like that. Once again machinery they use is a $200,000 leaf sucker, you know, just in the low end the guy running it, the truck, driving it, the fuel, you know, so. Generally speaking any other thing that we would add is just going to be a huge thing so it would just be a massive investment is all, not that I would ever be (unintelligible). But yeah boil down the people also, that wouldn’t just be equipment that would also be staffing don’t (unintelligible) the way.

Avery said yeah I mean for our size it doesn’t make a lot of sense. It would be great to get our sidewalks done and all that stuff but if we had four guys here working full time then we could do it. We have two so it just doesn’t make a lot of sense. Turner said yeah, I think like Ortonville is probably the next closest local town that’s about the size of us, there’s still a bigger DPW. I think they have four or five guys, and even they do, I think, their downtown sidewalks but I don’t think they do the whole town and even they’ve mentioned, I’ve talked to that guy right now it’s a, I don’t want to say a burden but they’re pushed to their max, you know, trying to get that done with the small staff they have. It’s tough when you also need a full time mechanic just to maintain the machines that are out there doing those things. I’m kind of split between the two, you know. Forte said for sure. Turner said so that’d be the other thing – more equipment would also mean more maintenance, or, you know, so.

Avery said yeah we’re just looking, I think, too is if there’s something out there that can make you more efficient. Forte said totally. Avery said we just talked about the side by side – Turner said yeah, yeah – (continuing), Avery said I mean that wasn’t too expensive and it was better for you. Turner said well that’d be one thing though I had to sell stuff to get it – Avery said I know – (continuing), Turner it was work, it also just to get that here. Forte said and if there’s things that we should be subcontracting out like let us know, you know what I mean, you guys know better than we do. Turner said yeah. We do subcontract some things out and I’m always, you know, if I can handle it, I think we can make the time and effort to do it we’ll always take on any extra project we can. Smith knows I’m no, I’m not shy of saying we just don’t have it in us right now or we are too busy with other stuff or it’s above my know-how or ability. I have no problem saying any of those things but also I like to do things myself and I definitely have an ego when it comes to, you know, I will always probably put every effort I can to get something done my own way first but I will also accept when, I’ve learned to accept over the past few years – (interrupting Turner), Smith said I’ve reined him in a couple times especially on trees. We don’t want any injuries here so at a certain level I say let’s call in a tree guy that we use quite a bit. Turner said yeah and I’ve learned to trust him now, now that we have, when we find a good contractor I generally am more likely to let go a little bit in those regards and then once I see that they’re fair price and do good work and clean up and are safe and I like how they work, I’m all about them coming back, you know. Which we have a few now established for certain stump grinding, tree cutting a lot of things that we use.

Rodgers said does anybody have anything else for Turner.

Rodgers said I personally want to thank you for the winter. For someone that leaves their house between 5:30 and 5:45 every morning, it was just key that the roads, at least within the village, as soon as you get out of the village maybe not so much, but while you were in the village the roads were just spectacular. It really was beyond what anybody could ask for so thank you very much.

Jones said I’m going to tack onto that and say that I think that we personally have the best, hardest working road crew in Oakland County just because, like you were saying, I mean even a week after the stuff began there were still paved roads that were Oakland County that hadn’t been touched by a plow and I was like, this wouldn’t happen in the village because they don’t have Turner. So I mean, yeah and like Rodgers, I’m right here on Main Street, so when I’m working in my room and whatnot I hear you guys, and you guys are going all the time and, so thank you guys for everything that you do.

Turner said it’s a labor of love. I will say, I do enjoy it, I have my frustrating nights in the winter, but at the end of the day I do love what I do and I always want to be better than the next guy, it’s kind of in me, unfortunately so when I see what the county does or anyone else is doing, I’m always going to try to be at least a little bit better than them. Just how I am so I do appreciate that it’s nice to know it’s noticed.

[Rodgers recognized Evelyn Bihl, assistant clerk/assistant treasurer/administrative assistant] for a comment but Smith made a comment instead.]

Smith said well, I just wanted to add on that point the snow plowing is Turner’s pointed out to me he’s up in this big truck and you can’t even necessarily see the road, certainly your depth perception in the middle of the night, and you’re up high seeing where the road stops and the grass starts it’s not always the easiest thing to do. He tries to keep like inside the grass, in the road, but there’s always the possibility that the truck slides. It’s not an all-wheel drive truck it’s a rear wheel drive. You go on the weight of it, and he’s told me before, he’s had to actually use the blade, the belly blade at times to stop it because it can slide, so you actually put that blade down with friction and stop the truck because it has a lot of momentum behind it. So, it’s not always the easiest thing to control and yet we get people in the front office here just swearing every F-bomb and swearing at us saying that you deliberately tore up my grass and no, that’s not the case. First of all, there’s no proof that it’s our trucks. There’s UPS and Amazon trucks going down there all the time. They go off, they try to get off the road so cars can go around them. They will rut up the front few feet of the grass, but we always go out in the spring. My message I wanted to get to is we will always go out in the spring, go throughout the entire city topsoil, seed, and hay, straw any areas that were damaged and whether it’s something we did or whether UPS truck did it, we will repair all of those. So, that’s the message I want carried out to all of our residents, and I try to do that in my email communications, to let them know that that’s, we have very little control over this, we do our best, it’s not intentional if it does happen, and we will repair it. Turner said definitely encountered some hostilities over that, so I guess that would be one thing I could use for sure, is just passing the message of ,you know, have people pull up, get out of their cars, jump on the truck climb up on there with me, yes the insanity people get into over a couple inches of grass, get into it, it’s crazy. Yeah the truck is bouncy, it’s loud, it’s, the belly blades, you’re driving through the mirrors, you’re not actually seeing what you’re doing, you’re watching a reflection of what you’re doing in the dark, snow, rain, lights flashing other cars coming, walkers, dogs, you know. It can be overwhelming and then to have people screaming at you at the same time makes it tough, so I would say that’s the biggest complaint I can have during winter work. It’s a lot of work and then you deal with some tough people.

Rodgers said Bihl had something that she wanted to say.

Bihl said yes, Smith did mention about the grass and stuff, so I’m glad he took care of that, but I also want to say Carson [Danis, DPW laborer] has been just as and is equal to Turner with all that snow and stuff, so the two of them have done a great job through this winter. I thank them. Turner said thank you. I should mention Danis. I feel bad now. He’s 100% my right-hand man. I’m not going to say he knows everything I know but he will definitely jump in any mess I’m into and he’s right there with me at all times and the kid works his ass off, for lack of a better word. He’s about the strongest, most willing person you’ll ever meet and he really puts it all out there for this job I’ll say.

Rodgers recognized Guillen for a comment.

Guillen said I just want to piggyback on top of that. I just want to commend Turner and Danis. This winter was brutal. It’s a huge undertaking for the two men team that we have, and I just encourage council to consider in order to retain top talent, salaries come at the end of the fiscal year.

Rodgers said anybody else. Anybody from council?

No comments.

Rodgers said anybody out there.

No comments.

Rodgers thanked Turner and said you don’t need to stay, Your day is over Turner thanked the council.

Item #10b – Resolution: Chamber of Commerce MOU [Memorandum of Understanding] Renewal (video time mark 0:38:40):

• • Resolution – Clarkston Area Chamber of Commerce MOU (page 25/38 of the council packet) 

• • 03-09-2026 Chamber of Commerce Memorandum of Understanding (page 26/38 of the council packet)

Rodgers said next on the list is a resolution for the Chamber of Commerce MOU, Memorandum of Understanding Renewal.

(Rodgers read the resolution.)

Rodgers said and would you like to make the resolution.

Resolution by Jones; second Avery.

Rodgers said OK. And discussion.

Forte said so, are they making money off of this? Smith said so they do both the light post decorations and the Concert in the Park are fundraisers for the Chamber, yes. They support, when you say what are they using that money for, it’s to support the businesses, all the other member companies. They turn around and they hold events to support them.

Forte said and are all of our businesses in the Chamber. Smith said I’d say about 60% of our businesses. I was on the Chamber board for a while, and about 60% of our businesses downtown are Chamber members. It comes and goes maybe, some of them get more value out of it than others so it varies. A lot of the businesses in the Township and even beyond, Springfield Township and Ortonville, they’re members of the Chamber as well because they may not have a Chamber of their own. So, but to answer your question, both events, the light post decorations and the Concert in the Park are money raisers for them.

Forte said how do they make money off of the Concert in the Park. Smith said so, they do sell booth rentals to the other vendors there that might be selling windows or cars or what have you. Those are paid booths that those vendors are buying from them. And they sell ice cream. Avery said and advertising. Smith said and advertising. So, they do make a little bit of money, not a lot, on the concerts not like Taste of Clarskton where they make a lot of money

Avery said now they’ve dropped it, it used to be six right? Smith said it used to be six, last year because of a conflict with 4th of July and then of a rain out, they dropped to four and now they’re saying they kind of like four and so the plan is to just have four this year. Avery said it seems like it’s losing the momentum a little bit. I can remember 10-15 years ago there was a lot of people down there. Now it’s maybe half full. Smith said yeah. Avery said it’s one of those things that’s kind of run its course. Smith said maybe, yeah.

Jones said have they been managing the light posts previously? Who’s been in charge of them before? Is there any precedents on this? Smith said so, last year they did the fall decorations, you saw the – Avery said corn stalks – (continuing), Smith said corn stalks. Jones said yeah. Smith said I was going to say bean stalks but it’s corn stalks on the light posts and they decorated them. Jones said oh, this is the decorations not like the actual banner things that are hanging up. OK, all right. Smith said decorations at the base of them. So last year they just did it in the fall, but now they’re going to expand it to spring, summer, and fall, fall being the corn stalks. I don’t know. I think spring is going to be flowers. Summer, I think being the 250 program it’ll be somehow American flags or what have you for that event.

Forte said can we negotiate a fee for this or something. Like if we’re going to have people using our light posts for posters or promotional anything can we negotiate, like, I think we should have a fee for this. Smith said so, that is something we can absolutely do and I can bring it to council, a proposal. We have not done this. Other cities do charge a fee to put your advertisement up even in the farmers market. They advertise with our light posts and we’ve never charged before, but it is something we could do. Forte said I think we should, we keep talking about finances, I think these things are kind of low hanging fruit – Smith said sure – (continuing), Forte said through if that’s okay with you guys.

Rodgers said and I’m assuming that they pay the rental park fee. Smith said they do. Rodgers said OK. Is there a chance too that with any of the decorations that they put up that maybe they could run it by us first? Forte said yeah. Rodgers I kind of thought the – Smith said corn stalks – (continuing), Rodgers said I’m going to call them bean stalks now, corn stalks were very nice except that they had this great big laminated piece of paper on it – Forte said agreed – (continuing), Rodgers said that I thought was kind of tacky. Avery said I thought it was pretty cheesy. Forte said agreed. Jones said I wouldn’t charge anyone for that. Smith said that’s the business advertising. Rodgers said well that’s a way to advertise without making it look so tacky. Jones said yeah. Rodgers said that’s what I mean by letting us take a look at it. Jones said yeah if we could just get some sort of – Rodgers said approval. Avery said I agree. Jones said yeah, right of first refusal. Forte said so yeah, maybe they give a follow up on this before we approve it. Smith said OK. Forte said if that’s alright. Smith said we could do that.

Rodgers said so, do we need to table this. Do I need to have a resolution to table it? Fisher said we could postpone it to the next meeting. Rodgers said and I can just postpone it. I don’t need a resolution. Fisher said it would be a motion to postpone it to the next meeting.

Motion by Avery; second Jones.

Motion to postpone the Chamber MOU passed by unanimous voice vote.

Forte said and on that kind of topic, when’s the next finance committee, like review back to us. Casey said next week. Forte said oh no no no, but come back to council. Quisenberry said well, it would be the meeting after the finance meeting. Forte said OK. Quisenberry said so, it might be the first meeting of, I don’t think it would be the first meeting, it would be the second meeting April rather, the second meeting of April. It would be the first council after. Forte said OK, thank you.

Item #10c – Resolution: Opposition to House Bills Preempting Local Authority (video time mark 0:45:27):

• • Resolution – Opposition to House Bills Preempting Local Authority (page 28/38 of the council packet) 

• • Form Letter Addressed to Mike Harris, Opposition to House Bills 5529-5532 and 5581-5585, the Local Preemption Package (page 29/38 of the council packet)

Rodgers said OK, next is a resolution to, Opposition to House Bills Preempting Local Authority.

(Rodgers read the motion.)

Rodgers said should I read this letter. Smith said well, I don’t think you need to read the letter, I think it’s pretty straightforward, but if you want some specific examples of what some of these, there’s a total of it was six, then it grew to nine, all intended to make housing more affordable, more available and so these house bills have been created, but some of them, one of them allows for lot sizes, Fisher’s mentioned this one, as little as 1,500 square feet. Our current minimum lot size is 16,000 square feet. 1,500 would just be 30 by 50 would be 1,500 square foot lot. Really tiny. If you think of the Waldon and Main property becoming divvied up by, and if this was passed they could do that and we have very little say about it, that, how many 30 by 50 lots you could fit on that corner. It’s kind of scary as to what that could do

Smith said another aspect of one of the other bills says that ADUs, we’ve talked many times about Accessory Dwelling Units and should we allow them here or there. That is something that makes more housing available. You basically put two houses on the same lot, granted the ADU is supposed to be for a blood relative, but over time that would kind of fade away, the checking of is it actually a blood relative living in there, so it results in more density is the concern.

Smith said another one is duplexes. You have to allow duplexes in your city. We have some in the city but as you know we’re trying to fade them out as they change ownership. If they don’t, if there is a six month window where they have no occupant, we can revert them automatically to single family homes. So, we don’t like duplexes. They create more density issues, more cars, parking and all that kind of stuff.

Smith said so, we’ve tried to move away from some of the things that they’re proposing in these bills and the biggest thing as I said in here is the preemption of your control, of city council’s control, of our zoning board of appeals. You take all that away. They wouldn’t have those controls anymore. That’s the biggest concern it’s really a precedent setting path that we don’t want to go down. So, the state, the MML [Michigan Municipal League], I’m sorry, MML and SEMCOG [Southeast Michigan Council of Governments] are strongly opposed to this taking away local authority. So, what they’re asking that we do is, at a minimum, they’d like the highest elected official to sign this letter, but I think it would be great if all six of you sign it and I can submit it back to the Michigan Municipal League. Well actually this will go directly to Mike Harris’ assistant.

Quisenberry said is this in committee right now. Smith said it is in committee. It hasn’t made it made it to the floor yet. It’s still in committee.

Avery said and it looks like it’s bipartisan right. The sponsors. Fisher said it’s got some. Some bipartisan support. Yeah. Avery said which is concerning. Fisher said yeah. Well not only that but Michigan Association of Planning is on that side. I have no idea how they got there. Avery said I would assume Michigan Home Builders, those kind of people would hide before too. Fisher said realtors. Avery said realtors. Yeah.

Jones said well I mean it also doesn’t really do anything but try to solve one problem by creating a multitude of problems like at the end of it. Because affordable housing is an issue but I mean you can’t do it by just going in and saying that every community has to be like this because not every community is the same, and I mean look at the weird difficulties that we have with our landscape and the things that we’ve got so no you can’t just rubber stamp one solution for an entire state or something like that.

Fisher said and one of the other big things is that you can imagine if you put all these additional lots in the infrastructure, the water and sewer, have all been sized based upon the current zoning and so it’ll be such a dramatic cluster that if all these units go in, it’ll be pollution for sure and over tax the capacity that the village has, and the city has, in the Clinton-Oakland interceptor.

(To Smith), Quisenberry said so your intent is you want each of us to sign this and give it to you and you’ll forward it to Mr. Harris? Smith said yes, I was hoping we could just all jointly sign one copy of it.

Rodgers said OK, so the resolution I need somebody to resolve that the City Council of the City of the Village Clarkston hereby authorizes the signature and submission of the attached letter of opposition to Representative Harris. Does anybody want to make that resolution?

Resolution by Jones; second Casey.

Rodgers said all in favor and there was a unanimous vote yes.

Jones said I think you need to do a roll call.

Jones, Quisenberry, Rodgers, Avery, Casey, and Forte voted yes.

Rodgers said it passes.

Smith said (unintelligible) our meeting before you leave, please sign. Thank you.

Item #10d – Resolution: 2006 Deer Lake Beach and Boat Launch Operations (video time mark 0:52:26):

• • Resolution – 2026 Deer Lake Beach and Boat Launch Operations (page 31/38 of the council packet) 

• • Clarkston/Independence Beach Lease (page 32/38 of the council packet) 

• • Clarkston/Independence Beach Lease – Draft (page 34/38 of the council packet)

Rodgers said next is Resolution 2026 Deer Lake Beach and Boat Launch Operations.

(Rodgers read the resolution.)

Rodgers said should I read the lease. Smith said no. Rodgers said I need somebody then to make a resolution and second it before we can talk about it.

Resolution by Jones; second Forte.

Rodgers said OK, anybody on council have anything to discuss about this.

Jones said I think it’s pretty cut and dry in terms of the conversations that we’ve had previously about what’s going on. Nothing new here. It at least gets us one step forward in terms of the ongoing back and forth.

Smith said it’s a little unusual of a resolution structure because of the unknown of what could happen tomorrow at the board vote so that’s why this is kind of either/or structure, but I think it captures the action that we need to take here at this point.

Quisenberry said either way our action will be determined by Wednesday morning – Smith said correct – (continuing), Quisenberry said which one we’re going to end up doing. Smith said correct. I think so. I guess there’s the possibility the township board could postpone or table their vote. I guess that’s a possibility in which case this gets extended out, but other than that, we should have an answer Wednesday morning which direction we’re going.

Rodgers said I think the people on Deer Lake are really anxious. The ones that want to put their boat in are very anxious to – (interrupting Rodgers), Smith said to know – (continuing), Rodgers said to know – (interrupting Rodgers), Smith said one way or the other. Rodgers said right because usually I think they must have their keys by now because they’re pretty unhappy

Rodgers said anybody from the audience have anything they want to say.

No comments.

Quisenberry said so if a council member here was not in favor of signing this and just wanted to hear them out, make a statement to them against signing this resolution to enter an agreement with the township, they’d be voting no on this correct? Rodgers said correct.

Forte said and then we would just continue on our path to figure out what it takes to manage this. Fisher said well, it depends what the majority wants. Smith said right. It depends what the majority want. Avery said right. If it fails – Fisher said yeah – (continuing), Avery said and then we won’t agree to sign it, the contract, then it will be ours because the contract’s over and it will be up to us to run it – Rodgers said or not run it – (continuing), Avery said or do whatever we want to do with it. I don’t know if we’re prepared to do that one way or the other. Forte said yeah. Avery said most likely if we don’t extend the contract, it would sit closed until we were able to put a structure in place to run it. Forte said yeah. I mean at a minimum we could just sell keys. Casey said it’s going to take more people to do it.

Smith said the boat launch, if you separate the two, the boat launch wouldn’t be quite as complex. It is something that I think if we get the word out to people that we’re selling the keys here, if that were the direction we’d take, then we’d just we’d manage it here from the office. Turner would get the key, obviously you’ve got to get a padlock with whatever, 200 keys keyed alike like and then we would police it and make sure there’s nothing crazy going on there, but other than that the actual sale of the keys would happen here in the office, so it really wouldn’t be a lot of extra burden. The beach on the other hand is a more complex animal because obviously we need to make some determination on a legal standpoint and the concern if let’s say we decided to, as we talked, the possibility of swim at your own risk, no lifeguards, nobody there really managing it, Turner and Danis would check in on things. Maybe that’s not feasible. Maybe we do need at least one person there. We’d have to figure that out but we’d have to look into that possibility. Could we do a swim at your own risk, but it’s a complicated beast really if you’re going to do swim lessons and have a lifeguard there, that’s – (interrupting Smith), Avery said well I don’t see how we could get that going – (interrupting Smith), Avery said no – (interrupting Smith), Rodgers said by June.

Rodgers recognized Chuck Phyle, Independence Township Supervisor, for a comment. (Phyle walked over to the podium.)

Phyle said let me just give you guys a little bit of information that might help out in your thinking (unintelligible). Chuck Phyle. I’m not used to being over here. Independence Township.

Phyle said so the revenue, so you guys know, is roughly, now it’s obviously weather dependent, but directionally it’s about $32,000 a year. So, between the boat launch and the day pass, and the passes for the beach, right, (unintelligible) partner independently, and Smith that’s correct as it stands right now, all those boat people who have keys have the keys to the current lock. So, I mean, it’s not like they can’t get in, you might want to regulate it if it decides that you guys want to take it internally. As far as the passes go, of that $32,000, there’s probably, I want to say it was probably about $14,000 of that is for the day passes and all that. There’s a little unique thing with those people they buy a school pass or something like that, so it’s about like I said about $13,000 or $14,000 there on that side of things.

Phyle said the lifeguards obviously is a big thing. Just so you know we have started, we just started the process of getting lifeguards for over at Bay Court where we were planning on having them swim, so it’s not too late to go through and start doing that.

Phyle said without a doubt no matter which way things turn out as I explained to Smith when I came by the other day there are some assets there, tables and some garbage cans and all that we’d be more than happy just to donate to you guys so you don’t have to worry about getting that part up and running. The dock was donated by the Optimists so that would stay there. We consider it to be a beach property asset, but anything else that we can help and direct you guys during that time we’re more than happy to help out. So, I just want to make sure that, you know, there’s some numbers on there.

Phyle said just to give you the bigger picture though we spend $80,000 more than we bring in. OK, so it’s expensive to run that beach and that program and everything else.

Rodgers said what do you spend that $80,000 on. Phyle said so, you have usually two or three people working the gate for the tickets for the day pass, people coming in and out. You’ve got the lifeguards, lifeguards are the biggest piece of that, you know, which was kind of interesting. Our site, our park, we don’t even have lifeguards, so that was part of the other thing. So, bulk of that, and then there was, let me see, there was about $114,000 we spent to kind of rehab the beach and try to extend the life of it and everything else that, you know. It’s the reality of the situation too, some of the things I talked about with Smith, some of the tough things going forward is that that beach, in order to get it back to what it was like when I was a kid hanging out there, it’s easily going to be, you know, $200,000 to $400,000, you know, and – (interrupting Phyle), Casey said because of erosion. Phyle said because of erosion, yeah, and you’ve got a bunch of that problem going on, like, there used to be a time where you could have two volleyball nets playing and all that. Now it’s just kind of everything on the other side of that little stream is now being eroded away. It’s going to keep eroding, so there’s got to be a more permanent long term solution there than even what we did for the $112,000 to $[1]14,000, and that’s part of the challenge and one of the things that we were talking to these two gentlemen about is that it’s really hard for me to sit here in, over there, and say residents we’re going to spend taxpayers money on an asset that’s not ours when we have an asset that we could be using and improving that we’re not (unintelligible).

Forte said sorry, would you repeat those numbers again if you don’t mind. Phyle said yeah which ones, all of them. Forte said yeah, all of them, sorry. Phyle said so, it’s roughly about $32,000 a year in revenue. Now of course if you go back to 2020, it was $14,000 in revenue because it was COVID and nobody was going out and all that kind of stuff, right? So, it fluctuates a little bit, but it stays kind of in that range. Expenses have been going up significantly, especially along the lifeguard work side of things because minimum wages have been going up. So, you know, you’re still, we still lose at the end of the day about $80,000, that’s what the average was over the last five years is $80,000. Forte said cumulative or per year. Phyle said each year. Forte said so the $80,000 would be broken into lifeguards and then what else. Phyle said maintenance, just kind of the everyday run of things, but most of it is labor related.

Rodgers said so basically, you’ve been doing this as a service for your residents. Phyle said yes, yes. Rodgers said it is costing Independence Township $80,000 – Phyle said yes – (continuing), Rodgers said to provide this service for the residents – (Jones interrupted Rodgers with an unintelligible comment) – (interrupting Rodgers), Phyle said yes, so let’s talk a little bit about those numbers too. There’s roughly about 2,200, if you do the math it works out to be about 2,200 visitors a year to the beach. We do not currently, we used to but we don’t do it anymore, delineate between the village and the township, so we don’t know what that mixture is.

Forte said how much is it to get in. Phyle said pardon me. Forte said how much is it to get into the beach. Phyle said $5. There used to be non-residents, we used to charge $7 and so forth. So, we concede some of those numbers that are the non-residents, and when I say non-residents, I mean non-Clarkston and Independence Township. We don’t, they’re not that big of a group, but there’s still a number in there. They’re the $7 ones. And the, we don’t know exactly the split between the village and the township. If you just probably use the percentage of population, it would probably come out to be that. We’re figuring out the 2,200 is probably 1,800 somewhere in that ballpark are Independence Township residents. Rodgers said so that’s just the price of having that service for your residents for those – (interrupting Rodgers), Phyle said yeah, but we have two other parks that we could be doing it at (unintelligible).

Avery said I guess my question is the vibe I’m getting is that you don’t want to really do this much longer – (interrupting Avery), Phyle said so I’ve had a conversation with these two (gesturing toward Fisher and Smith) since October that I wasn’t really excited about the fact that we’re spending that kind of money on an asset that’s not ours. I think and I’ve said this all the time though, that beach is a jewel, right. I mean it’s beautiful, as a kid I loved it growing up there, it was there all the time so on and so forth. It’s just a shame that, we don’t, I don’t feel it’s responsible, a fiduciary responsibility to go through and take the money and pour it into an asset that’s not ours, and you guys don’t necessarily have the money to go through and put $2- $400,000 into it to get it back to where it should be. That’s a very challenging position. Avery said right, and you’re not going to put that kind of money into it because you don’t own it. That’s what I’m hearing. Phyle said that’s right. We will go over to Brady Lodge and spend the money over there where it’s ours. That’s really kind of where – (interrupting Phyle), Avery said yeah.

Jones said and I appreciate you taking the time to come and share this with the city council as a whole so that we could really be looped into the conversation. It’s a shame that we couldn’t be having these conversations earlier in public like this because that would have been good for us to be able to really start thinking about what would our plans look like if we were going to take over if this wasn’t going to happen. And also just, you know, I am new to city government and what not, but typically from my understanding, things like public beaches aren’t designed to be revenue drivers, they’re public services, that’s kind of what a Parks and Rec does is they provide a public service that makes the community great for other things that end up being revenue drivers for it, and so, yeah, also I just, you know, it seems like if there were these other projects that wanted to be invested in in Deer Lake Beach that we could have maybe come together in the spirit of community for our residents and talked about those opportunities together and maybe we could have hashed some things out beforehand as opposed to letting it get to where it is now. But no, I do appreciate you coming here tonight and finally talking with us as a whole city council. Phyle said you’re welcome. Any other questions?

Quisenberry said yeah, I just, I just think that it’s been said twice by you that we just don’t know how we’re going to sell to our residents that we’re going to be paying money for an asset that is not ours as opposed to saying we’re going to use some of our public funds that you give us to allow you the opportunity to use an asset that isn’t ours, or use an asset that isn’t ours the same as the residents have. Phyle said so you’re saying the framing of it –(interrupting Phyle), Quisenberry said I think the farming of it is extremely important. Rather than say we’re going to use your money on an asset that isn’t ours. Nobody’s going to want to do that. That’s very difficult to sell as opposed to we’re going to use some of your tax dollars to allow you to use an asset that isn’t ours as if it were. Phyle said yeah, but not enough of our residents use it to justify that – (interrupting Phyle), Quisenberry said that’s not, the amount – (interrupting Quisenberry), Phyle said so that’s my position. I’m only speaking for myself. Quisenberry said exactly. Phyle said my position is that not enough of our residents use the asset in itself to justify that kind of investment, especially when we have another asset that could use that money desperately. And so if the other assets were fine, then yes, we, then I could see it. If we had some sort of longer term, and I know that there were some conversations, some other type of relationship, then yes, yes. But as it stands right now we’ve got a lot of inefficiencies in our relationship, and so those things are things that should be addressed at a much higher level. But as it stands right now with the beach, you know, we have Brady Lodge and we’re spending a bunch of money to get that all fixed up and everything else, and I’d rather take, me personally, rather take the money, the $80,000 and keep building it up and beautifying that park and when that’s done, great.

Rodgers said and how does your council feel about all of this. Phyle said I don’t want to speak for my council. Rodgers said but they’ve already discussed it, or is that what tomorrow’s meeting is about. Phyle said that’s tomorrow’s meeting. Rodgers said OK.

Avery said I was going to ask, your vibe is they’re going to approve the one year if we approve it, or are you going to get in front of them and say I don’t want to do that. Because I don’t want to waste our time if your position is we don’t really want to do this anymore. Phyle said my personal opinion is I don’t want to do it the way things are structured right now. Avery said yeah. Rodgers said I don’t think that’s the opinion of everybody though

Jones said I’m just curious because I’m thinking back now. You’re talking about the structures and what money is being allotted and the budgeting and the inefficiencies. None of this was brought up in the Clarkston News piece where you talked about the plan that you guys had for the tax budget and in terms of, like, where you all were sitting on finances and what the plans were for your capital improvements and for the local improvements. There was nothing in there about Parks and Rec needing this money to go over to Brady Lodge or Deer Lake Beach being an issue that you all were considering in terms of where funds were being allotted, so it’s, I just think that if this is such an issue that you all were having that that would have been something that you would address to the residents then too. Phyle said so, our budget is 900 pages long and that was a line item that the budget was redirected from the beach to Brady Lodge. It was in there, so it was in there, but I mean, you know, are we going to talk about every single line item in there? No, and I agree with 100% of you that the parks are not necessarily, and it was hard, I will admit that my first year, it was hard for me to realize that everything is revenue driven and the parks are not. Obviously, they’re not a revenue driven thing. You know, you can’t keep on going into the hole a bunch of times, because eventually you’re going to run out of money. But, you know, that is something, I would agree, it is, it’s, parks are exactly that. They’re, they’re a solid asset for the community. It’s a beautification type thing. It’s one of the, I think Trustee Tedder said it’s one of the true marks of a good township. I’m going to paraphrase a little bit because I don’t know exactly, but it was the park, so I agree with all that. But this is your park. This should be your, everything you’re saying to me you should be looking at yourself in the mirror and saying the same thing right back to yourself. This is your park. You beautify it, you put the money into it.

(To Phyle), Rodgers said it’s not our park, it is the – (interrupting Rodgers), Phyle said it is your park. Rodgers said historically. Phyle said you own it. Rodgers said historically, yes we do own it, and we have been leasing it to you for one dollar. What are you willing to pay for it? It is lakefront property. What are you willing to pay for it? Phyle said nothing. I don’t want to pay anything for it. I want you to give it back to me. Rodgers said so, you don’t care about the historical nature of it, you don’t care about being a child and when you were a kid and everybody that talks about it. None of that matters. It’s all about the dollar. It really isn’t about – Phyle said what matters is that it’s your asset. If you think it’s such a historical thing and such a great thing, turn it over to us and then we’ll take care of it, we’ll build it up, we’ll make it better – (interrupting Phyle), Rodgers said but you just – (continuing), Phyle said but in the meantime, we’re going to go through and take care of our parks because they need a lot of work. Rodgers said I hear you, I hear you loud and clear. Yup.

Phyle said anything else. We’re starting to drift a little bit here. Jones said (unintelligible) well.

Casey said is there a lake out in Brady? Phyle said yes, there is. Casey said how big is it. Phyle said it’s about two thirds the size of Deer Lake, I mean Deer Lake drains right into it.

Forte said where is that, where is Brady Lodge. Phyle said Brady is over Andersonville. Rodgers said on the other side of Clarkson, almost into Waterford.

Casey said is it a no wake lake. Phyle said that I don’t know. I don’t know that.

Rodgers said it’s almost to Waterford. That’s another reason why it’s kind of nice to have something that’s in the middle of your community.

Have you gotten a lot of complaints from your residents about putting money into, like, the Deer Lake beach. Has that been a complaint? Phyle said no. Truthfully, no. Not really, not really. I don’t think they know, personally. Forte said yeah. Phyle said I mean I don’t think they realize what we’re spending on it. Forte said yeah. Phyle said they will tomorrow. I’m sure that’s all going to be parts of the conversation for tomorrow, so.  Avery said thank you. Rodgers said yeah, thank you.

Rodgers said anybody else out there.

No comments.

Rodgers said alright, so, we have a resolution. We’re going to vote.

Forte said so what are we voting on again. Rodgers said we’re voting on, if we vote yes – (interrupting Rodgers), Forte said just not extending the contract Avery said just not extending the contract. Rodgers said if you vote yes, if the Township Board votes in favor of a one year con-, extension, the mayor and the clerk are authorized to sign that agreement. If tomorrow night it’s voted yes to extend the contract. If the township board votes against a one year extension, then the city manager is authorized to take steps to manage and operate the beach and boat launch in (unintelligible). Jones said we’ll find out what we get to do with it. Forte said I’m sorry, I have a newborn I haven’t slept in three weeks. Avery said if you vote yes, we’re saying that we want to enter into the contract – (interrupting Avery), Forte said OK – (continuing), Avery said for one year. (To Rodgers), Forte said I’m sorry. Rodgers said that’s OK. Jones said how dare you take care of a child.

Rodgers said roll call.

Casey, Jones, Quisenberry, Rodgers, and Avery voted yes.

Forte voted no.

Item #10e – Discussion: Independence Township Letter & Invoice re: Sewer Services (video time mark 1:14:48):

• • 03-19-2026 Letter from Independence Township, Sewer Services Invoice – Request for Payment Intent (page 36/38 of the council packet) 

• • 03-17-2026 – Invoice (page 37/38 of the council packet) 

• • Sewer Related Fees, Total By Year, 2020-2025 (page 38/38 of the council packet)

Rodger said next up is Discussion, Independence Township letter and invoice re: the sewer services. Rodgers recognized Smith.

Smith said yes. So, this is not something to vote on. I just put it as a discussion item because this came in to me. Phyle stopped by Thursday afternoon. And we knew about this. He had previously given us an indication that this was coming. So, this is the formal letter and invoice for the lift station, for the maintenance for the last six years at the lift station down at the south end of the park. So, this is new news to us. As you know, we have not paid any bills towards the maintenance of that facility ever, and so this is new news and a bit of a shock, but it’s something we are looking into. We’re looking into it from a legal standpoint, and our city engineer is looking into it from an engineering, kind of historical perspective of what has been done in the past.

Smith said so, this is just for your information. We’re not voting on this tonight. but as you can see in the letter, it’s asking for an indication of what our plans are. and we need to ultimately respond. It’s asking within 15 days of receiving this correspondence. So, we do need to put together a response of what our plans are. Are we researching this, which I think is important, that we do our due diligence and research the matter and then we’ll have to come to a conclusion as to what we’re going to respond to the township with. So, this is just a discussion, introduction to the item. I did not put on here as a vote. If you think you’re ready to vote on this tonight, we can change the agenda, modify the agenda to actually vote on this. But my thought was, let’s just introduce this to you. You can see the letter and the invoice, and we’ll vote on this in the next meeting.

(To Smith), Rodgers said I have a question for you. All of these vendors that have their itemization of what we, I’m assuming given that you’ve been given this invoice that you were part of the vetting of each one of these and the bidding of each one of these, because surely we wouldn’t be asked to pay for something that we had absolutely no participation in the vetting of. Is that correct? Smith said no, that’s not correct. I have not been part of the operations of that facility at all. Not just the operations. I have never been in that building. We’ve never been part of the bid release, if you will, or the vendor selection. Never been involved in any of that. Rodgers said so each year, this 2020, 2021, 2022, each one of those items, that $14,000, $17,000, $20,000, we never received an invoice for any of those things, nor have we historically ever. Is that right? Smith said that’s correct.

Jones said well, I was going to say even to tack on to that, were you even notified in 2025 or 2024 that repairs of this nature needed to be undertaken or were underway that we would be ultimately on the hook for paying? Smith said no. Jones said OK.

Rodgers said who uses this station? Just the city of the village? Smith said it’s a combination. If I had HRC [Hubbell, Roth and Clark, contract engineers] do a mathematical percentage it’s probably over 50%, I’m sure, of village residents. I don’t know if it’s as high as 90% or is it 70%? I don’t know, but it’s definitely more than half of the usage of that pump is, those pumps are, is sewage coming from city residents. But some of it is coming from north of town, from the township. It flows through the city into the pump station, it’s lifted up, and then it’s on its merry way down to Pontiac and beyond.

Rodgers recognized Casey for a comment.

Casey said I noticed that Colby Energy has no expenses until 2025 when $183,000 show up. What is that? Smith said I suspect because they had to replace generators, and you don’t want that to fail in a power outage, so they had generators there and those generators I was told, just kind of informational, not I want you to review these quotes kind of told, but I was told that it’s become necessary to replace the generators. So, my assumption is that Colby Energy is a generator company.

Jones said so will we be receiving any further detailed invoice than this? Smith said no, I think this is it.

(To Smith), Rodgers said what prompted this. Why all of a sudden after all these? Smith said yes. We’ve been talking about sewer pipe maintenance for some time, and we know that there are some sewer pipes in the city that need rejuvenation. And they’ve been camera’d by the company that does this for the township, and I’ve seen the camera, the videos, HRC will need to review these too. They said they are going to review the videos just as a third party confirmation that in fact that crack that I’m seeing at the 174 foot point in this video does suggest that pipe needs rejuvenation so that it’s not leaking. So, this company, Pipeline Management, goes through the whole city and they look at all the pipes and they establish a rating. Five being the worst, one being the best, and they rate all these. And they have criteria in which they follow. They’re a very professional company, no question about that. So, they have done that rating. Previously, we’ve had discussions with the township about trying at a minimum, trying to get all the fives addressed and as many of the fours as we can. We identified about $150,000, $160,000 in round numbers of work that needs to be done probably right out of the gate to address all the fives and as many of the fours as we can. So we’ve been talking about that for a while with the township, that those pipes are in our city, they’re in the borders of the city. There is still some remaining question of whether or not shared pipes are all our responsibility or not. HRC still tells me shared pipes should be shared, the cost should be shared. If there’s shared sewage going down that pipe, the maintenance of that should also be shared, and they have a whole algorithm for calculating what that shared percentage would be. But that aside for the moment, these pipes do need rejuvenation and that’s our responsibility. That became an extension of, the pipes now goes to the pump station which is where all the pipes feed into, that is also inside the borders of our city, and so it’s the township’s opinion that that is also just like the pipes are our responsibility, the pump station is also our responsibility. What, our position is that it’s a maintenance item, it’s not capital improvements, clearly capital improvements are on us if we want to expand the pump station and put a third pump in there or whatever, that clearly is capital improvement that should be on our dime.

Smith said maintenance, Fisher’s looking at the contract. We’re working on that trying to decipher do we agree with the township or disagree that that the maintenance, that all of this is ours, because this is largely maintenance. Now you could say Corby Energy, that generator we just talked about, that’s maybe a capital improvement. Maybe it went from a 30k to a 50k generator, I’m just making this up, but maybe that is a capital improvement.

Forte said what defines capital improvement. Smith said just typically a major expense or something you don’t have today, you’re going to have tomorrow. It’s an upgrade from what you have today. Fisher said not in the normal course of maintenance. Smith said so a pump that runs 24/7 and burns out and has to be replaced, that’s not a capital improvement there’s a pump there today, there’ll be a pump there tomorrow, that should be maintenance. Forte said but if it’s a capital improvement do we have to approve that, like, if it is for our city. Smith said it should be approved by us because we’re going to have to pay the bill so there’s Dan [Kelly, Independence Township attorney?] and Phyle know this well, Fisher knows this well, we’re evaluating exactly all the lines of responsibility on this.

Forte said what does the contract say. Avery said well, I don’t know how deep we need to get into this. Jones said I was going to say, that’s the point of the, yeah. Avery said the purpose of getting this was to get it in front of us. Avery said you’ve done that. Talking about potential legal avenues I think is something that we should– Forte said (unintelligible) for closed session. Avery said yeah. So should we make a motion for closed session. Fisher said it’s on the agenda. Forte said OK. Fisher said you have to.

Casey said are these costs that the township has paid already. Smith said yes, correct. Smith said so this is looking back – (interrupting Smith), Casey said but are these, should these be, how should I say this, has the township assumed any part of these payments or are these the total payments that we’re supposed to pay? Forte said what do you mean. Avery said this was the entire amount spent at that particular pump station. Smith said that is my understanding. It wasn’t like they said well 20% should be ours, we’ll pay that, and this is the balance. My understanding is this is all their expenses, 100% of the expenses for the last 5 years, 6 years, and you could argue well, some of that’s township sewage going through those pumps so there should be some share but that goes back to this whole legal discussion debate – who pays for shared usage or is it all us? Forte said do we do share usage for pipes currently. Smith said HRC tells me no, but I would agree if I look strictly at the legal document, I don’t see references to shared usage. Fisher said there is one pipe that is shared at least based upon the 1970 agreement. The pipe that goes from the south end of the village to the interceptor. And that is shared as I read it based upon the allocated capacity for each of the township and the village, and I think the village’s proportion of that is 8.5%.

Jones said we need to go into closed session. Rodgers said OK.

Smith said so this was just discussion and this is our last agenda item so if the council wishes to close the open session and move to a closed session.

Item #10f – Closed Session, Attorney’s Written Legal Opinion (video time mark 1:27:12):

• • Motion to Hold a Closed Session Meeting with City Attorney Gerald Fischer

Rodgers said do we have a motion to go into closed session.

Motion by Jones; second Forte.

Rodgers said all in favor of going into closed session – Fisher said roll call. Rodgers said roll call. OK.

Forte, Jones, Quisenberry, Avery, Casey, and Rodgers voted yes.

Rodgers said so at 8:27 we will be going into closed session. We will not, we will come back, but the only thing we will do when we come back is to get a motion to adjourn the meeting and so we won’t need the video, thank you.

• • Initiate a Closed Session Meeting
  • Discussion
  • Motion to End Closed Session Meeting
  • End the Closed Session, Return to Open Session

Agenda Item #11, Adjourn Meeting

[Because Rodgers dismissed the videographer and asserted there would be no further action taken beyond adjournment when the council reconvened, we have no way to verify that’s what actually happened.]

Resources:

• • Link to video recording here 
  • 03-23-2026 city council packet