Category: Public Comments

Posted on

May 13, 2024 City Council Meeting

Introduction:

Links to the video recording and the council packet are at the bottom of this post. Please note any errors or omissions in the comments. Anything noted in brackets was inserted by Clarkston Sunshine.

Agenda Item #1, Call to Order (Video time mark 0:00:01):

Gary Casey said OK folks, it’s 7:00. He’ll call the meeting to order.

Agenda Item #2, Pledge of Allegiance (Video time mark 0:00:06):

Casey said Pledge of Allegiance, please.

Pledge said.

Agenda Item #3, Roll Call (Video time mark 0:00:30):

Casey said roll call, please.

(Clerk Karen DeLorge called the roll.)

Gary Casey, Mark Lamphier, Ted Quisenberry, Peg Roth were present.

DeLorge said Sue Wylie, Amanda Forte, and Laura Rodgers were out.

Agenda Item #4, Approval of Agenda (Video time mark 0:00:54):

Casey said they need to approve the agenda as it exists. There are, there have been a couple of issues that have been requested to be removed from this agenda. Casey asked city attorney Tom Ryan if it was appropriate to bring this up now and Ryan agreed it was.

Casey said Item #10a under unfinished businesses. The ordinance changes to enable the building enforcement code officials to issue citations. And the second one is Item #11c, the resolution to, a proposal to implement a social media policy because they only have four members, four councilmembers tonight. Casey said he would like to make a motion to remove, a motion to amend the agenda.

Ryan said he would just suggest, sir, since they’re doing this, doing that, they should maybe move to have Casey be the presiding officer tonight, being the longest tenured council person since he’s amending agenda, if that’s OK. Casey said OK, all right.

Casey said the mayor is obviously not there and he’s sitting in, and the mayor pro tem is also absent, so they’ve got him.

Quisenberry said that being said, he’ll move to amend the agenda as suggested by Casey; second Roth.

Casey said motion and second to amend the agenda to take out or to defer to the next meeting #10a and #11c.

Casey asked for a roll call.

Motion to amend the agenda passed by unanimous voice vote.

Casey said with that, with those items removed, he’d like a motion to approve the agenda as revised.

Motion by Roth; second Lamphier.

Casey asked for a roll call.

Motion to approve the revised agenda passed by unanimous voice vote.

Casey said the agenda is approved as revised.

Agenda Item #5, Public Comments (Video time mark 0:04:02):

[Though public comments can sometimes irritate the city council, there is value to both the council and the public in hearing them. While they can’t eliminate public comments entirely without violating the Open Meetings Act, your city council has occasionally decided not to acknowledge public comments during a city council meeting unless the person submitting the comments also appears at the meeting (in-person or electronically) to personally read them. In the past, members of the public have been cut off for exceeding the city council’s arbitrary three-minute time limit (it’s arbitrary because no time limits are required by the Open Meetings Act).

If your public comments were submitted to the council but not read, or if you tried to make public comments but your comments were cut short, please email them to clarkstonsunshine@gmail.com and I will include them in my informal meeting summaries either under public comments or under the specific agenda item that you want to speak to.]

Casey said public comments. Individuals have the opportunity to address Council on topics not on the agenda. Casey asked if anybody wished to make any public comments at this time. It cannot be anything that’s already on the agenda.

Casey recognized Chet Pardee for a comment.

Chet Pardee:

Pardee thanked Casey, identified himself, provided his address, and stepped up to the podium.

Pardee said he has given just about everybody here a copy, the two-page, one is typewritten and the second is a photo. Bruce Percival is the younger brother of Steve. He lives on Church Street. Pardee and Percival rendezvoused at the corner of Washington and North Main in order to cross to the South side of Washington. He said are you going over there. Pardee said yes, and he’s got the dog with him. Pardee said he will be on Percival’s right. And so, they got their pedestrian walk signal and started across. And in the middle of the two curbs, he was hit on his bicycle by a truck that was turning to the left to go up North Main. Pardee said his graphics don’t look anything like (unintelligible), but he just wanted to see what it looked like.

Pardee said Percival is OK. The EMTs [Emergency Medical Technicians] took him to the hospital. He had a puncture wound in his lower left leg from some hardware on his bicycle that hit his leg, hit by the truck. So, (unintelligible) with orange flags. Pardee said he had his orange fleece on that some of you have seen. It’s really a Safety One fleece. The guy said he couldn’t see because of the sun, and he proceeded his left turn (unintelligible). If Percival hadn’t been there, it was just Pardee with his orange – (interrupting Pardee), Casey asked if this was in the morning. Pardee said it was just before 8:00. Casey said the sun was rising on his back. Pardee said in his face. He was facing East Washington. Casey said from West Washington. Pardee said he was turning left, and he said he had the sun in his eyes.

Pardee said fortunately, a deputy was like #3 at the light going northbound, and so, he pulled over and stopped. Pardee said he insisted this person be cited. The officer said he will. Pardee said so, it was dumb for him to be blinded by the sun and proceed left turning through the intersection with two people in the center of the crossroad.

Pardee said anyhow, so an orange flag wouldn’t have helped. That’s his jacket. It’s like fifty orange flags. So, Pardee just wanted to let them know that’s Main Street. And Pardee is not really sure what the issue is other than putting a sign that they would likely they be blinded to that would say don’t proceed to the intersection if the sun’s in their eyes. Pardee said anyhow, he just wanted them to know that.

Roth said so, he’s all right. Padee said Percival is fine. He’s OK. They took him to the hospital and Pardee took his wife (unintelligible).

Roth said well, she guesses they need to step up getting the road commission here. City manager Jonathan Smith said that’s M15, MDOT [Michigan Department of Transportation]. Smith said he’s working on it. They have put him off twice. They cannot come to council meetings in May or June. All those evenings, they said were already booked, but they are going to try to schedule a meeting with Smith just one-on-one here in the office. And then Smith said, well, he still wants them to come to council, so they’ll have to find a date. But somebody, maybe it’s not Bill Behr(?), but somebody from MDOT. Now this, as Pardee is pointing out, the flags or some other kind of crosswalk wouldn’t have helped. They’re never planning on putting any kind of flashing signals at Washington and Main. There’s a crosswalk there. The driver was just truly in error. Now, at Depot and Main, that’s another story and they need to do something there, but that’s the focus of his discussion with MDOT.

Pardee said he would buy the little man for Washington. Roth said the little green guy. Pardee agreed. Smith said if it’s in the on the center double line, that’s one thing, but to put them in like the turn lane, he thinks it’s a little complicated, a little tight. Pardee said his problem is he’s looking into the sun at 8:00 in the morning. See, you’re trying to put a sign up there. He wouldn’t have been able to see the sign (unintelligible).

Roth said maybe this could accelerate that discussion that Laura Rogers suggested.

Quisenberry said he thinks they have to be careful, and they have to understand you can’t fix stupid. Roth said that’s true. Quisenberry said they don’t want to have to put the sign up that says if the sun’s in your eyes and you can’t see while you’re turning, don’t turn. You can’t do that because then somebody’s going to do something else. Somebody’s going to slip and fall and get hurt and put a sign that says don’t slip and fall anymore. And Quisenberry thinks that that is well enough posted. It has the crosswalk. It’s a regulated intersection with the red light and the crosswalks in every direction, whereas Depot isn’t, and that’s why that needs to have something a little bit different, and if they’re going to try and sit, this is this is not good, it isn’t a good thing to happen. But you know what? Accidents happen. People get tickets. It doesn’t matter what it is. They want a stop sign, and they don’t want to put next to a stop sign: Really. Stop. Don’t run through this, all right? You just have to be really careful about how you think you want to regulate something that is already regulated and noticed enough.

Pardee said his conclusion is that anybody in that sidewalk is fair game. The bricks and the crosswalks. They were in the crosswalks. Casey said he thinks that’s overstating. Quisenberry said anytime anybody gets in a car to drive down the road, they’re fair game too, for somebody to crash into you. But the bottom line is that there’s rules out there of the road that people are supposed to adhere to.

Casey said all right and asked if there were any other public comments.

No additional comments.

Casey said they did receive a written comment from Cory Johnston of Lake Orion. It will not be read into the record. It will be in the city offices.

[The city attorney and city manager roundly criticized Mr. Johnston later in the meeting even though Casey refused to share his comments with the public until after the council decided to spend almost $30,000 on the project Mr. Johnston was commenting on. I’ve included Mr. Johnston’s comments, below.]

Cory Johnston:

Public comment on agenda Item #11a, Concrete Sidewalk Cutting

 The city manager has once again submitted a one-sided proposal and resolution that does not give the full picture of the existing sidewalk conditions and needed work. In addition, it ignores the requirements of both the city’s purchasing ordinance [30.15] and sidewalk ordinance [93.03 & 93.04]. I wrote the current sidewalk ordinance, so I am quite familiar with the contents as well as the city manager’s ongoing attempts to ignore it and other city requirements.

 First is that competitive bids are required. The city manager is attempting to sidestep this by saying the proposed work is proprietary with only one source. Even if true, it is not the city manager’s right to ignore bidding and ordinance requirements as this lies with the council [30.17]. There are also alternatives such as the more traditional grinding which was supposed to be done in 2019 but never happened partly to the work at that time going over budget by almost 50% due to lack of a defined contract for the work that was done.

 Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, the city manager continues to use a fabricated work requirement previously defined by him as a 3/4” lip or change in elevation versus the requirements of the city’s sidewalk ordinance, state standards, and federal ADA requirements. He continues to ignore requirements for running slope, cross slope, spalled, and broken conditions as documented in city ordinance section 93.03 and 93.04.

 Third, is that the spalled and pitted block pavers in the downtown area along Main Street continue to be ignored even though this was considered important only a year ago, funds provided in the 2022-2023 budget, but nothing done. These areas have a poor surface, excessive cross slope, and are in the most trafficked area of the city therefore creating a greater risk of injury. They have been this way for many years and continue to be so to this day with no proposal to do anything about them.

 Even if the proposed work is considered and approved, it does not address the overall problem, budget, and long term issues. Taking off one inch from a four inch slab reduces the strength by 44%. Removing two inches reduces the strength by 75%. This makes it much more likely to crack and fail in the future. In addition to reducing the concrete slab strength, the procedure does nothing to eliminate or mitigate the cause. Poor soil, water intrusion, tree roots, etc. will still be present and have the potential to cause even greater damage to what is now a weakened system.

 If the city cares about walkability, pedestrian safety, and the liability of the city, it would be best to consider all aspects of sidewalks and safety versus the arbitrary standards and procedures fabricated by the city manager.

 As noted in the provided resolution, nothing has been done since 2019, that work was incomplete, did not meet city standards, did not address the problems known at that time, and the currently proposed  bidding and award policy for work is unclear and contrary to established city standards since the city manager has failed to meet city ordinance requirements, document the full scope of work required, and degree of risk for work not done. 

 Cory Johnston
Lake Orion, Michigan

Agenda Item #6, FYI (Video time mark 0:12:38):

[Casey skipped out of order to Item #7, Sheriff’s Report.]

Item 6a – Presentation by Sheriff Bouchard Thursday, May 16th at 5:30 p.m. (Video time mark 0:12:42; page 3/54 of the council packet):

Roth said just to remind people, Sheriff Bouchard will be giving a presentation on Thursday night at Independence Township Hall, lower level doors. It’s of interest to people that live in the community – home invasions, property problems, drugs in the schools, a lot of just day-to-day issues that we are all concerned about. And it’s free, free to the public and should be of interest to people. Casey apologized. Roth said no problem.

Item 6b – Soggy Doggy at Deer Lake Beach Saturday, May 18th, 10:00 a.m. to 12:00 noon (Video time mark 0:13:21; page 4/54 of the council packet):

Casey said so, that’s 6a. Item 6b is Soggy Doggy at Deer Lake Beach on Saturday the 18th from 10:00 to 12:00.

Casey said OK. That’s the FYI.

Agenda Item #7, Sheriff Report for April 2024 (Video time mark 0:12:09 and 0:13:36):

    • City of the Village of Clarkston Monthly Report, Lieutenant Richard Cummins, April 2024 (page 5/54 of the council packet)

Casey said Sheriff’s report. They don’t have a Sheriff’s representative there tonight. Casey asked if anybody had any questions about the Sheriff’s report.

Quisenberry said he doesn’t see that was fixed, as far as – (interrupting Quisenberry), Roth said she just had one question and asked Casey if he could back up for a minute. Casey said oh, thank you. Is this part of the – (interrupting Casey), Quisenberry said FYI, #6. Casey said OK, pardon him.

[Discussion continues under Agenda Item #6, FYI.]

Casey said back to the Sheriff’s report and asked if there were any comments.

Roth said she has a comment. There’s nobody here from the Sheriff. Did he see the numbers. Quisenberry said yeah, they’re corrected. Roth said they are. Quisenberry said she’s talking about the – (interrupting Quisenberry), Roth said the traffic citations. Quisenberry said oh he was looking at the MICR [Michigan Incident Crime Reporting], the second group. The, originally what’s on there was 25 and 75, but that’s been corrected. Roth said oh yeah, OK. Roth said right. Quisenberry said the citations. Roth said yes. She said that had to be a typo. Quisenberry said which one, the citations? Roth said the ones that were on the computer. She didn’t print it out. Casey asked what was the number. Quisenberry asked if Roth was talking about the MICA [MICR] numbers? Roth said yes. Quisenberry said obviously, those are a typo because the copy that they have in their packet lists zero and zero. Roth said well, she sees ten and three. Quisenberry said but that’s – Roth said that’s much lower than what was in what was online. (Putting a document in front of Roth), Quisenberry said he thought she was talking about that. Roth said yeah, the 25 and 70, sorry. Yeah, that’s what it was. Right. How did that get in there like that. Quisenberry said obviously it was a typo that was caught. Roth agreed. [Please note Roth and Quisenberry were talking about the second section of the Sheriff’s report referencing violent and property crimes. The April numbers were originally reported as 25 and 75, respectively, and should have been 0 and 0.]

Roth asked Smith if he knew what they were talking about. Roth said what was online showed – (interrupting Roth), Quisenberry said on the website, the agenda that was posted on the website Friday has a typo. He’s sure it’s a typo. It has wrong numbers and it’s been replaced. DeLorge said because she, yes, they reached out to the Sheriff. She corrected it. Roth asked when it was corrected. DeLorge said she would have to check. She came in on Friday also, so she thinks she did it Friday.

Casey said OK and asked if there were any other comments on the Sheriff’s report.

No comments.

Agenda Item #8, City Manager Report for 05-13-2024 (Video time mark 0:15:56):

    • City Manager Report, May 13, 2024 (page 6/54 of the council packet)

Casey said the city manager’s report. He asked if there was anything Smith wanted to discuss. Smith said he didn’t think so.

Roth said she did have one comment for Smith about the waste removal. He was having problems with Waste Management. Smith agreed. Roth said you know, they, on Madison, they have all gotten off, away from, they’re using Community Disposal Service. Amazing difference in price. So, their whole street has started using them because waste disposal prices have gone crazy. Smith said skyrocketed. Roth said yeah, and she called them, there’s no explanation, just this is a new price.

Smith said so, they wanted to go to Community. So, they use Waste Management for the dumpster and the trash cans on Main Street. That’s what they do for us. And when he called Community, said this is the size can we have, dumpster we have out here, they asked what Smith was paying now, he told them, and they said, well, you’ve got a hell of a deal. You don’t let that go. And Smith said, well, it’s true back in the day when they were Smith Disposal, they gave us like 50% off their normal rate. There was a very attractive rate because they are a municipality. When Smith Disposal became Advanced, then Advanced became Waste Management, they carried the same price over. And so Waste Management has told Smith, because he was also competitively bidding this with Waste Management, and they said if they rebid this, it’s going to be about three times what you’re paying right now. Roth said wow. Smith said and basically it sounds like Community would be the same. They were given such a deal on that dumpster. They’re paying like $600 a year for that dumpster. Roth said wow, because they were about three times what they are paying now with the new company.

Quisenberry asked why is it that all of a sudden, they just quit service for those several weeks. Because he was talking to one of the businesspeople on Main Street and they were saying that it’s just, they haven’t been coming, and he goes out and empties his own trash just so he doesn’t have a trash can full right in front of his restaurant there. So why was it? Smith said their understanding is just new drivers that didn’t know the route and so they just weren’t emptying those. Granted, it’s kind of a pain to empty those. They can’t just lift it up with their truck, so they have to physically get out of the truck and take the liner that’s inside those decorative cans and empty it. It’s a lot of work, but that’s what we pay them for. Smith said they are continuing to watch this. If Waste Management does come through with an increase as they’ve kind of suggested, they are reviewing our case, if they do come through with that, then Smith will jump to Community. He has no loyalty to   Waste Management. Roth agreed. Smith said they’re the best.

Smith said other than that, he has no other comments.

Agenda Item #9 – Motion: Acceptance of the Consent Agenda as Presented 05-13-2024 (Video time mark 0:19:33):

    • 04-08-2024 Final Minutes (page 7/54 of the council packet)
    • 04-22-2024 Draft Minutes (page 9/54 of the council packet)
    • 05-13-2024 Treasurer’s Report (page 11/54 of the council packet)
    • 05-01-2024 Check Disbursement Report for the Period 04-01-2024 – 04-30-2024 (page 12/54 of the council packet)
    • Carlisle/Wortman April Invoices (page 20/54 of the council packet)
    • Thomas J. Ryan, P.C. April Invoices (page 21/54 of the council packet)

Casey said OK, next is a motion to accept the consent agenda for the final meeting minutes of April 8, 2024, draft meeting of April 22, 2024, and the Treasurer’s report of May 13th. 2024.

Casey asked Ryan if they needed a roll call. Ryan said no. Casey said OK.

Casey said so everybody in favor of consolidating those say aye.

Motion passed by unanimous voice vote.

Ryan said they should actually just accept the consent agenda as enumerated by Casey. Casey said right, OK. The consent agenda is accepted.

Motion by Roth.

Smith said that passed. Smith said Casey is just adding that it was the consent agenda.

Agenda Item #10, Unfinished Business

Item 10a – First Read: Proposed Ordinance Changes to Enable Our Building & Code Enforcement Officials to Issue Citations (With Input From T. Ryan) (Video time mark):

    • Proposed Ordinance Change (page 23/54 of the council packet)

Casey said they have removed Item #10.

Agenda Item #11, New Business (Video time mark 0:20:52):

Item 11a – Resolution: Proposal to Approve Concrete Sidewalk Cutting for Eligible Heaved Sidewalks (Representative from Contractor to Attend) (Video time mark 0:20:54 and 0:47:55):

    • Resolution – Sidewalk Repairs Phase I: Horizontal Cutting (page 24/54 of the council packet)
    • Sidewalk Repair Inventory as of May 9, 2024 (page 25/54 of the council packet)
    • Proposal from Precision Concrete Cutting (page 28/54 of the council packet)

Casey said this is Item #11, New Business, A, resolution proposal to approve concrete sidewalk horizontal cutting for eligible heaved sidewalks.

Smith said so, he’ll introduce this topic. So, they’ve been, as they probably are all familiar, they’ve been looking at ways of addressing the sidewalk cracks, the heaved sidewalks in the village, for over a year now. Last year, they brought a proposal forward to council to replace them, but unfortunately, the cost was too high, and so he was recommended by council, because the cost exceeded budget, recommended by council that they take off some of the streets, or some of the sidewalks off of the proposal. In the meantime, Smith was talking with the city engineer and the ex-city engineer, who’s now moved on to the City of Birmingham, about other technology, and it was at that point he learned about horizontal cutting of slabs that would allow the slab to stay in place. You’re just cutting the heaved portion off to make it ADA- [Americans with Disabilities Act] compliant. So, they’ll cut up to an inch and a half. They will never cut more than that. It’s an inch and a half at the most, and most of these slabs that Smith is proposing be cut are in the three-quarter inch to one inch range. Smith has gone down to as little as one-half inch, so he guesses he’d say they range from one-half inch to about inch and a quarter. Their technology will allow them to come in and horizontally cut that and leave the slab intact so you’re not taking that and putting it in a landfill, that slab, they’re leaving it in place. Yes, it could still continue to heave upward, but the other cities he’s talked to have had great success with this technology, the City of Birmingham particularly. So, it is an alternative, and that can be favorable alternative over completely ripping out the slab and replacing it.

Smith said so, Ben Johnson from, the company is Precision Concrete Cutting, is here tonight. He knows they only have four council members here, so whether or not they vote on this tonight, they’ll see. But Smith would like to take advantage of Johnson’s time and have him give them a quick update on the technology while he’s here and the other council members can watch on video and if they want to learn, want to hear Johnson’s comments, they can do that if they’re going to vote on this, say in the next meeting.

Smith asked Johnson if he could step up to the podium and just give an overview of the technology. (Johnson walked to the podium.)

Quisenberry asked Smith if they’re going to vote on it next meeting, not tonight. Casey said maybe. Quisenberry said oh, I gotcha. Smith said maybe, they’ll see. You know, if they have questions, if they have concerns about this, then Smith would say they defer it to the next meeting, but if everybody thinks it’s a great idea, Smith guesses they could move forward. Quisenberry said they need four votes. Casey said right.

Ben Johnson, Precision Concrete Cutting:

Johnson said Smith did a great description of what they do. Their company, they focus solely on sidewalk trip hazard resolution via a horizontal saw cut. It’s a dry cut, which is preferred to a wet cut typically, so you don’t leave the wet slurry mess behind on the sidewalk. And then a lot of the municipalities that they work with, you know, there’s a lot of emphasis on walkability. So, how do they make the sidewalks more walkable. Preservation or carbon footprint reduction. So concrete is one of the biggest causes of greenhouse emissions. So, each slab that they can keep in the ground reduces those emissions considerably. It’s a patented process, so they’re the only company that does that here in Michigan. They’ve been put out to bid in a few cities just due to their local ordinances, and they’re always the only contractor response to those RFP [Request for Proposal], RFQ’s [Request for Quotation], that type of thing.

Johnson said and it’s a quick repair, meaning their average time on the saw on a trip hazard is about ten to twelve minutes. That can vary, you know, just depending on the height of the trip hazard. And when they’re done, it’s an edge-to-edge ADA-compliant slope and the trip hazard has been remediated, and then they do a three-year guarantee, or he doesn’t say guarantee –  warranty on the repairs themselves. So, if you end up having that slab heave up again, they can come out and do what they call recut if it’s still enough concrete left to cut, or if it’s more, they can refund that cost on that one into a future project. That’s how they do the warranty work. And then the proposal, he believes, which is also in their agenda, page three of that proposal cites all the sole source eligibility for patents. There’s a lot of language in there regarding that.

Roth said so, if you were reading this, if it, so, they can decide what, so you can weaken and then you have to come back in and repair it again. Johnson said it would make it more weaker. So, most sidewalk is poured at a four-inch thickness. So, the concrete that’s left behind will still have the same structural integrity, but if they cut, say, an inch off, it would be the structural integrity of a three-inch slab versus a four-inch that you originally had. Old school methods, grinding, typically they, the pulverization method that they would use on that can cause microfractures within the concrete, and long-term, those microfractures develop moisture and weaken the concrete. Just the general (unintelligible) microfractures, whereas the slicing method doesn’t cause as many fractures.

Quisenberry said and the grinding, you still have to in the same distance (unintelligible) – (interrupting Quisenberry), Johnson said yeah, it typically takes longer because you’re grinding all the way down versus when they’re just slicing through. So, they have to go through a lot. Quisenberry said but they’re still taking off the same amount. Johnson said typically grinding is not ADA-compliant when you’re done because the drone that they’re using isn’t set up to do ADA. It’s just set up to remove the material.

Quisenberry said Smith mentioned talking with Birmingham and asked Johnson if they did the Birmingham city. Johnson said yes (unintelligible). Quisenberry asked if any other vendor did anything in Birmingham. Johnson said they still do the traditional sidewalk and remove and replace, because Johnson can’t fix all sidewalk issues. They can fix usually about 70 to 80% of them. Then, you know, if something’s heaved, you know, three to four inches and you have multiple cracks (unintelligible), that type of thing, obviously, they can’t fix that. So, their goal is to keep good concrete in the ground. So, if it’s just a vertical displacement, they can fix that.

Quisenberry said they’re the only company in Michigan that does this slicing thing. Johnson said correct. Quisenberry asked how long they’ve been doing this. Johnson said in Michigan, since 2008. Johnson said so, the owner of their franchise, he bought in 2008 in Michigan. Their corporate is out of Provo, Utah, and they’ve been doing that since, he thinks, ’96 or ’97. So, they’re the ones that actually put all the patents in place, came up with all the equipment and everything.

Lamphier said so, is it Johnson’s recommendation that they had a four-inch slab, the maximum they take off is an inch and a half. Johnson said typically, yeah. They’ll see some states go higher than that, but most, especially in the 60s and 70s, a lot of your sidewalks were formed up with two by fours, which, two by fours are actually three and a half inches. And then, you know, they’ve seen it in different places where, you know, it might be three and a half inches on the side, but it might be close than three or two and a half in the middle. So, they found in Oakland County, an inch and a half is a good number to stay happy. But they do have some cities, Birmingham does up to one and a quarter inch because they’re a little worried about cross slope. And then Pontiac goes up to two inches because they like them for what they do because it stretches their budget further. So, they’re willing to work with them, whatever (unintelligible) a city wants to do.

Ryan said so, he would just say that, and answering a couple of comments of Mr. Johnston about the bidding requirement. [Ryan was referring to Cory Johnston’s comments that Casey refused to read during the meeting that are included above in italics under Agenda Item #5, Public Comments]. Ryan said this is a specialty enterprise. It’s patented that, the system is patented, and the equipment is patented, so, and it’s less, so, the reason Ryan knows this is, he’s not, it’s just because he represents the Village Beverly Hills, which is adjacent to Birmingham. And last year, Beverly Hills hired this company to do this type of pilot project for, he forgets how much money, for a section of the sidewalk based on the Birmingham experience, and he talked to village manager today. They were very pleased with the quality of the work, and it stretches the dollars further, and if they can’t fix it, then they won’t. They’ll move on to something else, and that’ll have to be dealt with. But this is a patented process that it, apparently, it doesn’t bring in big equipment and whatnot. It’s got this machine that does the work it does, and Ryan thinks they showed pictures in there. So, he means, as to the competitive bidding issue, this is a specialty product that is not, you know, otherwise available and there’s no competition for this but that’s just because of the product. So, you can’t get an apples-to-apples quote for bid. But the, everybody that’s used the product has been satisfied with it, including the Village of Beverly Hills, number one. Number two is that you know, he means, the question about, he guesses they’re only going to go to inch and a quarter. They’re not going beyond that.

Smith said well, all the ones that he included in his estimate were an inch and a quarter or less, and he went down, unlike what Johnston says in his email three-quarters of an inch, Smith went all the way down to half an inch. Actually, some of them are closer to a quarter of an inch. So, he did, because of this technology, he wouldn’t tear out that slab just because it was a quarter of an inch high, but because this technology is so attractive cost-wise, he did include more slabs. And that’s why the number of slabs went up from 250 last year to 300 this year, because he included some of those that could be good candidates for cutting that he didn’t otherwise think they could afford to replace. But if they’re doing this cutting technology, they can afford it. So, it’s the right thing to do and what Johnston is saying here is incorrect on multiple levels. It is a single source that he can’t multiple-quote companies that don’t exist. Ryan agreed. Smith said and secondly, he’s not going up to an inch and a half or even two inches as Johnston suggests here in his e-mail. He’s not, you never do that. Thirdly, they’re never going to do this on a driveway. These are all just in sidewalk sections. Driveways, as you know, have to be beefed up. They’re typically six inches thick in the city because of the vehicles. The sidewalks are, as Johnston says, three and a half to four inches, so they stay away from the, any heaved slabs, and driveways will have to be candidates for replacement, not horizontal cutting. And then secondly is Smith addressed a lot of slabs that are down to as little as a quarter of an inch trip hazards. Smith said so, he is addressing all these despite what Johnston says in his note, and Smith thinks this is a great solution.

Smith said what they would do is break this into two phases. So, phase one would be to have Johnson and his crews come in and do the horizontal cutting first, and any that Johnson comes back to Smith, after he’s done his inventory, his walk around, and feels these are the 171 candidates for saw cutting. If he says (unintelligible) only 160, these other eleven that you said could be saw cut, he’s a little nervous about doing them for one reason or another, and he doesn’t do those, so the cost might be a little bit different. Wouldn’t be higher, just be lower. But those that they don’t do in phase one horizontal cutting will be then addressed in phase two, which would be the next fiscal year when they’ll have additional funding available to them.

Smith said so, phase one is horizontal cutting, let’s get everything done when they can and save this, save the slab. Phase two would be next, later this summer, not next year, this next fiscal year, but not next calendar year, they would do the cut out and replacement for those slabs that are not candidates for horizontal cutting. So that’s why Smith has got phase one and phase two. He has not brought the costs together for phase two. He’s going to requote that again, but this is just for phase one. He doesn’t think the two are tied together. You don’t have to do one or the other at the same time or together to make it complete. They would like to do them both, but he’ll get costs and bring those to council separately for approval.

Johnson said he wanted to add to that. In most cities they’ve operated in, they’ll have them go through versions or at least cost of repair and then either a month or two later, they’ll bring in their replacement crew, sometimes at the same time and they’re working around them, which isn’t ideal, or like Birmingham, they bring them in a full year later. So, they’ll have them work one side, one part of the city, replacement crews work a different part. Next year, they rotate. So, there’s a lot of different ways to address it, but what Smith’s talking about is very common, yeah. Phase one, phase two.

Quisenberry did have some concerns in this letter from Mr. Johnston, but Ryan, he addressed them perfectly, no concern, and Smith, so Quisenberry has no concern. Ryan said he’s not here to sell them. He’s just telling him the experiences, you know, why the competitive bidding thing doesn’t work here and the fact that this is a proven product, that people have been satisfied with both quality of it and the cost of it. Quisenberry said Johnston gave the impression, reading this, he cites a couple different ordinances that they would probably be violating if they went to this, and Ryan is saying no, they’re not. Ryan said no, sir. Quisenberry said great.

Lamphier said so, to do the cutting first and then the replacement later, are they taking care of problems that are less severe than the ones that are more severe as far as trip hazards. Smith said there are going to be some trip hazards that have to be replaced. Lamphier agreed. Smith said to be ripped out and replaced. They’re not candidates if the slab is cracked, maybe heaved, but it’s cracked and alligator, it’s going to fall apart if they try to saw cut it. So, there could be some trip hazards that will still remain after phase one. But the bulk of the trip hazards, in Smith’s opinion, will be addressed in phase one. He’d say 75-80% of the trip hazards. There are going to be some that were just not candidates for, it will have to be done in phase two, but a lot of them will be done. And the good news is, as Smith said, he lowered his criteria because of the cost efficiency of this. Previously, he used to record an inch, not because that was ADA, but because that’s what they could afford. It was just that simple. It wasn’t because he didn’t want to fix every slab in the city and go down to quarter inch ADA standards. It was because he couldn’t, because he didn’t have the budget to do that. But with this technology, he does have more leeway to get more done. So, he went out and re-inventoried the whole city and increased it from 250 slabs to 300, and they’re going to be pretty darn good after phase one. Phase two is going to address the more problematic slabs that are just cracked and just totally flying apart.

Lamphier said but also ones that are heaved more than one and one quarter inch cut, right. Smith said right. Lamphier said some could be two or three inches. Smith said there are a few of those, yes.

Roth said and so, when you get out there, if you see more of those, then you come back to Smith and say you can’t fix those. Johnson said right, and Smith has already identified them so they’re aware of them. Roth agreed. So, if they come across something, so, sometimes, what causes issues in the summertime, or typically in spring and summertime, is just water, so if someone’s got their irrigation lines leaking and it’s moving a lot of dirt under that sidewalk, maybe it pops. So, it’s (unintelligible), but it does happen. So, they’ll identify it and they’ll let Smith know in their reporting.

Smith said OK, he thinks this is a very solid recommendation. Their cost came in at $24,754. Smith has added a 10% provision for that. As he said earlier, he thinks if anything Johnson may come in a little less than the quote because there’s some that he might just say he’s not comfortable doing this much, and Smith hopes Johnson does that, that’s fine. So, Smith doesn’t think it’s going to be higher, but nonetheless, after the experience of a few years ago, Smith did add a provision for the unknown and added a 10% provision, so the total request here is for $27,229. And that would be paid out of the city’s parking fund, which is to be used for roads, sidewalks, and parking lots. So, the monies are there, and you know, that’s the recommendation. Smith guesses he’s looking for council to, you know, they’ve only got four of them here. They have to be a unanimous vote. Smith hates to vote this down and not be able to bring it back. He can’t bring back next meeting just because it was voted down, so he’d hate to lose this if they, if they think they need the input of the other three members, then they should do that and postpone the vote to the next meeting.

Roth said she was ready to vote. Casey asked Quisenberry if he had any problems. Quisenberry said no. Casey said OK, he thinks that Smith, they go forward with it. Smith said that would be advantageous. The sooner it gets kicked off, the better.

Casey said yeah, there is a resolution. In this discussion, they’ve covered, he thinks, all of the whereases, including the 10% from, for city work. (Casey read only from the last paragraph of the resolution.)

Casey said he thinks they’re ready to vote on this.

Ryan said they need a second.

Quisenberry said he will second it.

Casey asked who’ll make the, they need a motion. He just read it.

Roth said she would make a motion to accept the resolution, or the sidewalk repair.

Casey asked Quisenberry if he would second. Quisenberry said he does, but he wants one question answered. Mr. Casey [Johnson?] mentioned the 10%, which is the built in, but there’s a red line in his sheet here that says a municipal discount will apply if project is accepted prior to May 10th. We’re past that. Do we get it? Johnson said yeah, they can extend that. So, typically, he can go to management, and they’ll extend anything to the annual budget year. Quisenberry said OK. Roth told Quisenberry that was a good catch.

Casey asked if that affected the amount. Does that affect the $27,229? Quisenberry said that’s what it is. Casey said OK.

Casey asked if they were ready to vote.

Pardee raised his hand and said he had a question for Smith. Pardee asked how many slabs are there in the village. Smith said he’s never added up the entire city. His inventory says there are 347 slabs. Smith said Pardee will be interested in knowing that Smith did not include in that 347 on Miller Road because that’s gonna be a bigger – Pardee said so that will be in phase two. Smith said no, that will not be in phase one or phase two. Pardee thanked Smith. Smith said the Miller Road sunken area there, that’s gotta be part of the road paving solution. But 347 are the bad slabs. It’s got to be, you know, well over 1,500, he would guess. So, it’s about a fifth of the city, for the city needs to just. (Johnson made an unintelligible comment.) Smith said well, it’s a great approach. You get this cadence going and you’re never done and you just, you finish year eight and you start back over where you did on year one and just keep it going. And that’s if they can get that cadence started. They just have such a backlog to get through. Then they can maybe get that cadence going. Johnson thanked Smith.

Smith asked if they were ready.

Casey asked if there was anything else.

No additional comments.

Casey said OK.

DeLorge asked if she should take a roll call. Casey said yes.

Casey, Lamphier, Roth, and Quisenberry voted yes.

Casey said it passes.

(Unintelligible council comments.)

Roth said see if it works.

Casey said we get the horizontal cutting done.

Smith thanked Johnson and said he appreciated him coming out. Johnson thanked Smith. Casey thanked Johnson for his presentation. (Johnson made an unintelligible comment and returned to his seat in the audience.)

Johnson asked when Smith wanted to start. Smith said he would like to get this, if they can, in this fiscal year so they have the work done by June. Johnson thought they could do it by the end of June or the beginning of June, yes, but he has to talk to his (unintelligible). (Whispered conversation between Lamphier and Roth. Lamphier left the council table.) Smith said you know, the way he would set it up would be phase one in this fiscal year, phase two would be next, so he would like, Johnson doesn’t have to bill Smith this year, but he needs the work to be done in June. Johnson said he will see what they say. Smith said OK. Smith thanked Johnson and noted he needed to leave. (Johnson got up from his audience seat and left.)

Roth said well, the next one is postponed.

[Council began to discuss Item #11c, social media policy, which had been removed from the agenda, then jumped back to this discussion before going back to Item #11c again.]

(Lamphier and Roth had an unintelligible discussion.) Smith said he just wanted to bring up (unintelligible). He likes Johnson’s signature block on his e-mail because there’s actually a little video of the sawing taking place. (Additional unintelligible discussion between Roth and Lamphier.) You can see he’s working across the cutting, going across that slab, so it goes side to side cutting that slab. And he didn’t mention about the ADA compliance. He, if he’s cutting off just a quarter of an inch, he only has to go back about four inches to make it ADA-compliant. But if he’s cutting off an inch and a quarter, he’s got to go back about eighteen inches. So, this is all computerized. So, they set the computer to make that saw blade at an ADA level so it just automatically will go back as far as it needs to to make sure that the resulting cut will be ADA-compliant. Smith said anyway, he just wanted to show them that little video clip (unintelligible).

Roth said from reading about it, there are a lot of good points about it. If this works, it would be a really good thing. Casey agreed and said the technology is impressive. Roth agreed.

[At this point, Quisenberry continued the discussion under Item #11c, which had been removed from the agenda.]

Item 11b – Resolution: Proposal to Waive the Depot Park Rental Fee for 501(c)(3) Non-Profit Organizations

    • Resolution – Waiving Depot Park Rental Fees for Non-Profit Organizations

[This agenda item was noted as deferred to the May 28, 2024, city council meeting.]

Item 11c – Resolution: Proposal to Implement a Social Media Policy (Video time mark 0:47:01 and 0:49:13):

    • Resolution – Social Media Policy (page 32/54 of the council packet)
    • Proposed Social Media Policy (page 33/54 of the council packet)

[This item was removed from the agenda, but the council engaged in discussion as follows.]

Quisenberry said they did postpone the social media, but one thing, he was looking at on the resolution, this is, not be therefore resolved that the City of the Village of Clarkson hereby authorizes the city to post the attached external social media policy. Shouldn’t it be adopt and post, because they have to adopt it, they should adopt it formally before they post it.

Smith said he’s sorry, it was – Quisenberry said he’s looking at the social media policy that they’re not going to vote on, but he was just wondering when it’s, when they do vote on it, the resolution, shouldn’t it be a resolution to adopt it as opposed to just post it? (Lamphier returned to the council table.) Smith said it needs to be adopted. Quisenberry is absolutely right. Quisenberry said that needs to be added in.

[At this point, Smith returned to the discussion on the sidewalk repair, above. Following Smith’s additional discussion, Quisenberry continued the discussion on the social media policy, below.]

Quisenberry said he wanted to make one other comment. They’re going to pass on the social media, but reading it over on the first, on page two, one of the bullets, as you can tell that this is a cut and paste from the state which is good, but information, that one of the things that they say you can’t, information that may compromise the safety or security of the state, including state employees. That’s obviously there because it’s a state policy. Shouldn’t they say the city and city employees? Smith said absolutely. That was just one they missed. There were probably one hundred references to the state in this document, so he’s sorry, they did miss that one. They will take those questions and bring it back to the next council meeting. This is one of the ones that Sue [Wylie], he thinks, wanted to be here to comment on, so, yeah. So, they’ll make those changes and bring it back at the next meeting.

Both Smith and Casey asked if there was anything else on this.

No additional comments.

Item 11d – Resolution: Acknowledge of May Being Mental Health Awareness Month (Video time mark 0:50:37):

    • Resolution – Mental Health Awareness Month – May 2024 (provided by Oakland Community Health Network) (page 35/54 of the council packet)
    • April 16, 2024, Letter from Oakland Community Health Network, Subject: May is Mental Health Awareness Month Proclamation (page 36/54 of the council packet)

Casey said OK, let’s move on to Item #11d, Resolution, Acknowledge May Being Mental Health Awareness Month.

(Casey read the motion.)

Casey said so, that is the (trailing off).

Smith said they didn’t include a voting sheet on it, but they should vote on this, right? Ryan said yes, sir. Smith asked if it should be a roll call. Ryan said it’s a resolution, so it should be a roll call. Somebody should make a, somebody should move the resolution. Casey agreed.

Casey said do they have a motion. Quisenberry said yes, for the City of the Village of Clarkston to recognize May as Mental Health Awareness Month. Second Roth.

Casey said they have a motion and a second and asked for a roll call.

Roth, Quisenberry, Lamphier, and Casey voted yes.

Casey said the resolution passes.

Item 11e – Resolution: Five-Year Extension of the Metro Act Right of Way Agreement with AT & T (Video time mark 0:54:50):

    • Resolution – Metro Act Renewal (page 37/54 of the council packet)
    • 04-17-2024 Letter from AT & T, Metro Act Right of Way Permit Extension (page 38/54 of the council packet)
    • Right-of-Way Telecommunication Permit Dated March 31, 2011 (page 39/54 of the council packet)
    • Exhibit A, Right-of-Way Telecommunication Permit Dated March 31, 2011 (page 52/54 of the council packet)
    • Map (page 53/54 of the council packet)
    • Exhibit B, Right-of-Way Telecommunication Permit Dated March 31, 2011 (page 54/54 of the council packet)

Casey said next, there is a resolution for a Five-Year Extension of the Metro Act Right of Way Agreement with AT & T.

(Casey read the resolution.)

Casey said he needed a motion.

Motion by Quisenberry; second Roth.

Casey asked for a roll call [without asking for discussion].

Pardee asked to be recognized for a question and said he couldn’t figure out where his house was on the map because there’s (unintelligible). The 2011 map that was included. And the next question was the name of the company that (unintelligible) the cable (unintelligible). Pardee would like to know if somebody’s going to dig in his front yard, or if you’re going to push it onto their driveway, he’d like to know who’s going to do it.

Smith said there have been no clear work requests for fiber in the city. He knows they’re bringing it in. He sees it in other areas surrounding us, but they do have a right of way. Not only AT&T, but some of these other ones, Verizon, Comcast, of course, and so they could do it. They have the land to do it. Smith doesn’t know where it is relative to Pardee’s driveway, but it is something that could be done if they wanted to go to the expense of upgrading. Pardee said so, if he wanted to try to search, then he ought to be looking for the company name that began with a P. It had about a dozen letters in it. Smith said he doesn’t even know if there’s still a PAETEC managing this. In the original agreement from 2011, they were the company that was implementing it. Pardee said and they don’t have any timing idea when somebody’s going to come in and (unintelligible). Smith said well, you know, this is just a general agreement to continue the right of away. There are no indications of any planned work. Pardee said because the one that they had in place is about to expire and they want another. Smith, Casey, and Ryan agreed. Smith said it’s just an extension. He doesn’t know and is not aware of any work plan in the city on the easements. If they do, they certainly will let Pardee know. Smith can update council after as well because there is some other utility work – Pardee said the flags should start to show him. Smtih said yeah, the (unintelligible) flags would go up.

Roth asked if Smith was recommending this. Smith said yes, absolutely.

Quisenberry asked Smith if in the map that Pardee referred to, it says subject to change without notice and also it appears that all of our fiber optic routes are aerial. There’s none buried. Smith said that’s entirely possible. Smith said he guesses he’s just not up to speed. He couldn’t speak to that. He doesn’t know if they are any buried or not. Usually, when you see fiber, it’s above ground. He hasn’t seen too much, well, you don’t see it when it goes below ground, but it starts above ground. So, Smith couldn’t tell Quisenberry what’s above ground and what’s below ground on this map.

Ryan said they can contact AT&T, and they can tell us what the plans are for the city, and they can answer those questions. He means, it’s in the public right of way. So, they got a, they just need our permission, and we can’t withhold it. He means, under the state laws, that’s public policy to include telecommunications so that, and we get paid per standard fee per mile relative to whatever their use is, so he means, those questions could be answered, but he’s glad Smith found the original 2011 agreement.

Smith said to Ryan’s point, they pay these PEG fees, Public, Education, and Grants [Public, Educational, and Government] or something fees like that, they pay us PEG fees, which we in turn use for our videotaping that’s going on right now as he says this. So, that’s what PEG fees are used for. So, what Verizon and AT&T and Comcast pay us for, these right of ways, access to these right of ways, we turn around and pay those funds to, a dollar for dollar basis, we turn around and give those to Independence Television to do our recording. And Smith has mentioned in previous meetings, there is some legislation in the Michigan Legislature right now to look at eliminating PEG fees. We are opposed to that, and most municipalities are. The Michigan Municipal League is opposed to that legislation. Smith doesn’t know if there’s a lot of votes behind it, but there is some legislation to eliminate PEG fees and they hope it does not pass.

Casey asked if there were any other comments.

No additional comments.

Casey said they’ve had a motion and a second and commentary on the vote.

(DeLorge began the roll call.)

Casey, Lamphier, Roth, and Quisenberry voted yes.

Smith said one other topic that is not on the agenda that he should have brought up with his city manager report. Before they adjourn, he just wants to give the council a quick update. So, it’s been several years, maybe ten years or more, since the city’s sanitary sewers were camera’d and just inspected. So, Independence Township manages all of our sanitary sewers and our water lines. And so, they have procured funds to do that this year, so in very short order, maybe as early as Thursday of this week, crews are going to start coming out, and over the course of the summer, they are going to wash out, because before they can do the camera and they send the robot down the sewer lines to, you know, do a camera inspection of the sewer lines, before they do that, as you can imagine, they have to wash those out. So, it’s kind of a good thing that we get all of our sanitary sewers washed out, but they also inspect them to make sure that there’s no damage. So, the township is paying for this entire thing for the city. It’s part of our contract with them and we’ve been paying them sewer fees for years, so they have the money set aside for that. It’s going to be $250,000.

Smith said so, this company is going to be embarking on this just as early as this week, and in total it could take as much as a couple of months, because they’re going to pick a section, let’s say, between this manhole cover and this manhole cover, and they’ll go down there, and they’ll wash it out. They’ll temporarily block it for any new sewage going down there and then while it’s washed out but before the sewer starts going down again, they will run their camera down there. Inspect it. The downside is that if there is some damage found, the city is responsible for the cost of repairing it. Knock on water, our sewer lines were put in in 2001, which is fairly young for a concrete sewer line. So, knock on wood, they’re confident that any damage will be minimal, and they can repair it fairly inexpensively.

Smith said they rarely dig up sewer lines anymore. That’s extremely rare. What they do now is put in liners. So, that same robot that goes down the sewer line doing the camera can also spray a liner inside as it goes, makes its way down in the sewer pipe to the next manhole cover. So, if they do find a crack or, probably the worst-case scenario is inbound water. Let’s say a lake or a pond or river or just somebody’s sprinkler system is just gushing water, clean water, effectively clean water into the sewer line, that goes down to the City of Detroit and has to be processed as sewage water and that’s very expensive if you’re getting 40-50,000 gallons a minute coming in from some lake. So, that’s the biggest risk that they’re looking to find and resolve. So, Smith is just letting them know that because crews will be out. They don’t anticipate any road closures or lane closures, but they will have to come out and work from manhole to manhole, and as you know, some of these manholes are out in the middle of the road, so they may have to put up some barricades to just kind of work around that or have a flag man out there, and that’s going to go on for the course of the summer. But it’s a good thing to get done, and we hope they find nothing, but they’ll see. It hasn’t been done in ten years. It’s supposed to be done every three to four years.

Casey said there is a sewer line that goes, he lives on Parke Lake, there is a sewer line that goes right across the bottom of the land, probably thirty feet from Parke Lake, you know. So, it’s way down, he means, it goes downhill. It’s way down there. Smith agreed. Casey said so, he assumes they’re going to be getting into that as well as on the roads. Smith said absolutely. Not the storm sewers, just the sanitary sewers, but yes, they’re way down there because, the gravity. Until they get to the pump station, and they pump them up and then down, you know, as they go towards the Pontiac pump station.

Lamphier asked where the pump station is. Smith said it’s just south of Depot Park (pointing). Lamphier agreed. Smith said that red brick building. That’s at the south end of Depot Park. That’s a pump station, so the gravity feeds downhill, but at some point, you can’t go all the way downhill all the way to Detroit, you’d be 100 feet deep, so they have to pump it up and then it goes gravity down until the next pump station.

Smith said so, just a quick update that he wanted council to know because that could start this week. Casey said they appreciate it.

Agenda Item #11, Adjourn (Video time mark 1:07:26):

Casey said motion to adjourn.

Motion by Lamphier; second Roth.

Motion to adjourn passed by unanimous voice vote.

Casey said thanks for coming, folks. See you in two weeks.

Resources: