Category: Secrecy

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July 13, 2026 City Council Meeting

Introduction:

Links to the video recording and the council packet are at the bottom of this post. Please note any errors or omissions in the comments. Anything noted in brackets was inserted by Clarkston Sunshine.

Agenda Item #1, Call to Order (video time mark 0:00:00):

Sue Wylie said OK, it is 7:00. I am calling the meeting to order.

Agenda Item #2, Pledge of Allegiance (video time mark 0:00:04):

Wylie said everybody would please rise. We will say the Pledge of Allegiance.

(Pledge said.)

Wylie said thank you. I promise I haven’t forgotten the words yet. I only have one. Let’s make sure everybody’s standing up and ready to go.

Agenda Item #3, Roll Call (video time mark 0:00:32):

Wylie said Item #3 is a roll call. (To Angela Guillen, clerk), Wylie said can you take a roll call, please.

Sue Wylie, Laura Rodgers, Al Avery, Gary Casey, Amanda Forte, Erica Jones, and Ted Quisenberry were present.

Wylie said thank you.

Agenda Item #4, Approval of Agenda – Motion (video time mark 0:00:46):

Wylie said Item #4 is the approval of the agenda. I need somebody on council to make a motion to approve the agenda.

Motion by Jones. Wylie said is there a second?

Quisenberry said I think we need to make a motion to amend the agenda. Wylie said how about we approve it and then amend it? Does that work? Does that work? City attorney Gerry Fisher said sure. Wylie said OK. Fisher said either way. Either way is fine. Wylie said let’s make, let’s at least get the motions and then you can make a motion to – Jones said I’ll withdraw my motion. Wylie said OK. Jones said I withdraw my motion. Wylie said OK.

Wylie said so, we still, we need approval of the agenda.

Quisenberry said I’ll make a motion to amend the agenda to add an item. Wylie said OK. So, we need to have a vote on that before we can see what the item is. Is that correct? Fisher said yes. Wylie said OK. So – Quisenberry said New Business, K. Wylie said so, first we have a motion to amend the agenda and I have a second. I’ll move a second to amend the agenda to add an item K to discuss privilege and confidential opinion. That’d be J. H-I-J. H-I-J. That’d be J, yeah.

Second Avery.

Wylie said OK. So, the motion is from Quisenberry to amend and Avery seconds.

Motion to amend the agenda passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said we have a motion to amend the agenda to add this privileged and confidential opinion to the city council from the city attorney.

Wylie said OK. So, now I need a motion to approve the agenda as it is amended.

Motion by Rodgers; second Jones.

Motion to approve the amended agenda passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said the agenda is approved with the amendment included.

Agenda Item #5, Public Comments (video time mark 0:02:50):

[Though public comments can sometimes irritate the city council, there is value to both the council and the public in hearing them. While they can’t eliminate public comments entirely without violating the Open Meetings Act, your city council has occasionally decided not to acknowledge public comments during a city council meeting unless the person submitting the comments also appears at the meeting (in-person or electronically) to personally read them. In the past, members of the public have been cut off for exceeding the city council’s arbitrary three-minute time limit (it’s arbitrary because no time limits are required by the Open Meetings Act).

If your public comments were submitted to the council but not read, or if you tried to make public comments but your comments were cut short, please email them to clarkstonsunshine@gmail.com and I will include them in my informal meeting summaries either under public comments or under the specific agenda item that you want to speak to.]

Wylie said Item #5 is public comments.

(Wylie read the rules for public comments.)

Wylie said would anybody like to make a public comment?

No comments.

Agenda Item #6 – FYI: (video time mark 0:03:17):

Wylie said hearing none, we’ll move on to item 6, which is FYI.

Item 6a – 2026 Clarkston Garden Walk & Artisan Walk [should be “Artisan Market”], July 15, 2026 (video time mark 0:03:23)

    • 2026 Clarkston Garden Walk & Artisan Market flyer (page 3/110 of the council packet)

Wylie said and we have 2026 Clarkston Garden Walk and Artisan Walk, which is July 15, 2026, which is Tuesday or is that Wednesday. From 11:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. We have a lovely flyer and a really nice-looking garden house. Yeah, is that what you know? Is that real?

Joette Kunse said it is real, yes. It’s on the Andersonville Road in Springfield Township. Wylie said wow. Kunse said it looks slightly different because they changed the roof. I really like the metal roof, but they didn’t like the metal roof. Wylie said OK. Kunse said that’s an app. That’s an app that gives it a, what do I want to say, a, you know, you take your picture and then you make it kind of like a watercolor. Wylie said OK. That’s lovely. I have to get my shed fixed after the tree fell on it, so I’m still thinking this is what I want. (Unintelligible comment.) Wylie said but we have six fabulous gardens and programs and maps, artists and musicians, restaurant special. Day begins on the grounds of Clarkston Independence District Library, Clarkston Road. And $15 tickets are available online June 15 through July 14. And you can visit www.clarkstongardenclub.org page to purchase online. On the day of, tickets are $20. I’m sorry, you can also purchase tickets at Bordines and the Clarkston District Independence Library, the Gateway, and online. The $20 day of show are only available, I’m sorry, the day of the garden walk, the tickets are only available at the library grounds.

Kunse said can I just say one more thing? Wylie said sure, go ahead. Kunse said you have two gardens. One garden is 94 Clarkston Road, Linda Walker’s garden on (unintelligible). But the other garden, we don’t have the exact address, although I guess I do have it here. But it’s on East Washington, and I don’t know whether that is really the township or the city. (Wylie made an unintelligible comment.) Kunse said it’s on Parke Lake. Wylie said it should be city. Whose house is it? Kunse said it’s Mr. Bigsby. But Mr. Bigsby is 90 years old. Wylie said oh, wow. OK. Kunse said it’s in that, it’s on that side where Littles used to live. Rodgers said oh, yeah. Kunse said it’s kind of like a little courtyard there. Wylie said OK. Kunse said but it’s probably our oldest garden we’ve ever had. (To Casey), Wylie said do you know how old that is? Casey said I don’t, but it’s on East Washington. Smith said it’s on the dirt side. It’s on the dirt side, so it’s probably – Wylie said oh, dirt side. OK. Kunse said yeah, it’s on the dirt side. It’s 6585 East Washington. Wylie said OK. Township. OK. Thank you.

Wylie said anything else for FYI?

No comment.

Agenda Item #7 – City Manager’s Report (video time mark 0:06:14):

    • 07-13-2026 City Manager Report (page 4/110 of the council packet)

Wylie said Item #7, city manager’s report, which we have in our packet. (To Jonathan Smith, city manager), Wylie said did you want to add anything? Smith said I may add just to re-emphasize that the 16th, which is Thursday, is the deadline to submit petitions to run for council. Wylie said and mayor. Smith said Thursday, July 16th is the deadline to submit petitions to run for council in November. Wylie said and mayor. Smith said and mayor, yes. Wylie said OK.

[Clarkston Sunshine note: As it has in the past, the city again creates confusion about when campaign filings are due. The actual deadline is July 21, as set out in the Secretary of State’s election calendar. So, both the city manager’s report, published in the council packet, and his statement here are wrong and could perhaps discourage potential candidates who correctly believed that July 21 was the proper deadline.]

Wylie said anybody have any questions or comments on city manager’s report?

No comments.

Wylie said OK.

Agenda Item #8 – Consent Agenda (video time mark 0:06:53):

    • 06-08-2026 – Final Minutes, Regular City Council Meeting (page 5/110 of the council packet)
    • 06-22-2026 – Draft Minutes, Regular City Council Meeting (page 7/110 of the council packet)
    • 07-13-2026 – Treasurer’s Report (page 9/110 of the council packet)
    • 07-07-2026 – Check Disbursement Report for the Period 06-01-2026 to 06-30-2026 (page 10/110 of the council packet)
    • 06-15-2026 – Rosati, Schultz, Joppich & Amtsbuechler, P.C., May invoices (page 16/110 of the council packet)

Wylie said Item #8 is Consent Agenda, which is included in our packet. Final minutes of the June 8, 2026, regular meeting; draft minutes of the June 22nd regular meeting; and the Treasurer’s Report from June 13th. I need a motion from council members to approve the consent agenda.

Motion by Jones; second Avery.

Wylie said any discussion from council members or questions, comments from the public?

No comments.

Motion to approve the consent agenda passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said the consent agenda is approved.

Rodgers said I’d like to ask a question about the beavers. Wylie said go ahead.

Rodgers said about these beavers that are in Parke Lake, are they, like, is it a real thing? Because our water is, like, super, super high. So, is there someone to contact about this? I don’t know. Smith said we have – (interrupting Smith), Rodgers said I’ve been asked by multiple people about it. Smith said there are plans in operation right now to remove the beavers, and then remove the dam, in that order. Rodgers said oh, OK. Smith said so, there are – (Fisher made an unintelligible comment.) Rodgers said oh, OK. I just was curious, because the Knapps(?) were asking me, a couple other people, and I was like, I just found out that there were beavers and that, and I just figured it was the amount of rain, but – Fisher said it’s taking longer to do that. Rodgers said a lot longer. Fisher said so, I’m going to send out a Parke Lake message. Rodgers said oh, okay. Thank you.

Smith  said  I think we should take the opportunity to tell people to not wander into the dam area or the, where the dam is in the Clinton River. It’s only about three feet deep there, so it’s easily navigated, but there are traps just before the dam so you don’t want to step on those. Wylie said oh, beaver traps. Smith said yes. Wylie said oh. Oh. Smith said so, stay away from that area. There is an action plan. Rodgers said thank you.

Wylie said and those are live traps, obviously. (An unidentified person said no.) Smith said no. Wylie said oh, they’re not. Casey said death traps. (Laughter.) Avery said for them, yes. Wylie said OK.

Wylie recognized Quisenberry for a comment.

Quisenberry said don’t you think it would be a good idea for whoever is doing it, put a sign up advising anybody walking in the area that there are (interrupting Quisenberry), Smith said maybe, as I haven’t been over there since – Quisenberry said isn’t that reasonable? Fisher said we don’t want to tip off the beavers, right? Wylie said beavers are a very smart mammal, so, OK.

Wylie said OK, anything else on manager’s report?

No comments.

Agenda Item #9, Unfinished Business (video time mark 0:09:28):

Okay, Item #9 is unfinished business, which we have none.

Agenda Item #10, New Business (video time mark 0:09:31):

Wylie said Item #10, New Business.

Item #10a – Discussion: Christmas Market Status Update (L. Rodgers) (video time mark 0:09:33):

Wylie said starting with #10a, Discussion: Christmas Market Status Update with Laura Rodgers.

Laura Rodgers:

Rodgers said so, every year, Amy Wilson, who is my partner-in-crime for the Christmas market, get together in June, and this year we kind of expanded it, trying to get a bigger committee. And historically, we have always had four or five people on our committee in June, and then usually by November it is Amy and I. So, this year, Greg [Coté], our treasurer, was interested, and Evelyn [Bihl, deputy clerk/assistant treasurer/administrative assistant] was interested. Guillen and Smith were all interested in getting started early.

So, what’s already in progress is the advertisement that we put in the Parks and Rec catalog for fall. I guess it’s fall, but it goes in. The deadline for that was June 15th, and so our ad is in there. It has a refreshed look to it now. It’s blue, which sounds a little weird, but it really does look very good. And Amy Peterson, who is our photographer for Santa, she pays for our ad, which is a huge – Wylie said wow, that’s fantastic – (continuing), Rodgers said yeah, it’s a huge thing, because they’re very, very expensive. So, that’s in. That should be coming out in, I believe, September, so you’ll see that ad.

We, during this meeting, talked with Jimi [Turner, Department of Public Works (DPW) supervisor] about the whole DPW, what their needs were, what we needed to get for them, and kind of solidified all that. Most of it was what happens if we get another snowstorm like we did, or repeated snowstorms like before. And so, we’re trying to develop a volunteer action plan for people that could come down. The problem is that it needs a skim to do the, the tractor needs a skim to do the park. You can’t just, like any Joe Blow can’t get a snow blower in there and blow it out. And Turner is very, very, thank goodness, particular about the grass and the park, as we would want him to be. So, we talked a lot about it. I don’t think that we have an action plan just yet, but there are various people that are working on, various people, maybe some landscaping places, that might volunteer their time, or at least be on standby, because we don’t know. It could be the community too. That’s what we’re working on.

The other issues that we talked about, a lot of our lights, these lights that are on the original side, the original lights that we put up, they actually have withstood the test of time very well, because this will be our fifth year of the market. And through donations, we purchased those. And so, we are going to have to take the ones that are there now down and repurchase them. But really, the only thing that our donations can afford are the same ones again, which are like patio lights. So, hopefully, we will get the same use out of them.

We did talk about electricity and asked that potentially Smith look into Hutchinson’s giving us a quote that we could bring to council on even just increasing the electrical outlets that we have. Right now, we string up, I don’t know how many, extension cords and try to like cover them with different tape and whatever so people don’t trip and fall on them. But everything has to go back to that one pole right next to the gazebo. And so, it inhibits us from kind of spreading things out, because we can’t get things there.

Forte said for Main Street Clarkson, we met this last week, and we were talking about their – Wylie said could you talk a little bit louder? Forte said sorry. Main Street Clarkson just met last week, and there’s a grant that we want to go after. And one of the things that we talked about was applying with the electrical and the lights. Rodgers said oh, awesome. So if we can get those quotes. I mean, we kind of have like several dominoes that have to go down before we’re like fully applying. But that was something that came up. Rodgers said and I guess we would have to get quotes from more than just Hutchinson. I mean, that’s what we usually use. But whoever you can get that from, that would be fantastic. Avery said electrical, we don’t have to, because we approved that as a no bid. Forte said it’s $20,000. Rodgers said the grant is. Forte said yeah, and it has to go to a city in North Oakland County. So, it’s like very selective, and part of it is placemaking, and that would fall right into that category. Rodgers said oh, that would be wonderful. Because it would help with a lot of things, and we might be able to entice people to do more things if we had that. And the lights are all, I know that was a topic a couple of years ago, but they’re very turn on and off-able. Like they don’t have to stay on all the time. Forte said we can do a dimmer. We can do a timer, like – Rodgers said we can do those environmentally ones that have the little domes on them. But that was like the big need and want that we have to replace. Forte said team up, so like when we get those quotes and stuff, we can apply, even if you’re (unintelligible). We’re also applying to this other one, like – Rodgers said every option we have – (continuing), Forte said you know.

Rodgers said we’re also looking, again, for donations, because this thing is really put on through donations. Council, of course, gives us $1,000, and then DPW services. But the bulk of it gets put on by the community. And the, I shouldn’t say the bulk, another portion of it gets put on by the community and through their donations. So, if anybody has a business that they would like to donate, we’ll take anything from $5 to $5,000 and more. Whatever you have to give. And we do get some, you know, like $25 donations or $50. And it adds up. If you have 10 of those, then you have $500.

So, Santa is pretty much secured again for next year. He has an opening on our date. And the date is December 12th. It’s the second Saturday in December. So yeah. December 12th. Same time. 4:00 to 8:00. So, if anybody knows anybody that would like to volunteer, high schoolers, junior high kids who want to help with games, or sit in the Santa letter writing tent, or help kids on and off ponies, whatever, send them my way. Anybody that wants a donation, wants to donate, send them my way as well.

We’ll still have the, most likely, we’ll still have the fire department here, at least the ring, and somebody to man the fire. So, yeah, ponies are still coming.

Wylie said thank you. Anybody have questions for Rodgers? Rodgers said Christmas in July. Wylie said yeah. Thank you. Rodgers said you bet.

Item #10b – Discussion: Certified Local Government Proposal (H. Schriber) (video time mark 0:16:41):

    • Certified Local Government Program, Program Requirements & Certification Handbook (page 18/110 of the council packet)

Wylie said #10b is Discussion, Certified Local Government Proposal. It says H. [Haley] Schriber. Oh, that’s you. OK. Hi, I’m sorry. You said something about beavers. I thought, oh, she must be. OK.

Schriber said yeah, my name is Haley Schriber. Wylie said Haley.

Haley Schriber:

So, I’m from the State Historic Preservation Office. My role there is the local historic district coordinator, as well as the certified local government coordinator. So, I work with communities on all sorts of local matters, helping them find programming, helping them figure out, like, tax credits, those sorts of things. But, yeah, I was invited here. I’ve already spoken with Smith, (unintelligible), and the Historic District Commission talking about the local historic district resurvey that was done recently. And then we’ve also been speaking about a potential for the certified local government program.

So, I know that Smith printed out some things for you. It looked like you had maybe the manual. Smith said the manual. The full manual. Schriber said OK. I also have, like, kind of the mini version of the manual, if that would be helpful. Forte said yeah. Schriber said do you have this one? Forte said no, I don’t think so. Schriber said can I pass that around? Jones said yeah, this one is very thorough.

Schriber said yes. So, that’s, like, the item by item for all the requirements of the program. But I can give you how much time do we have? (Unintelligible.) Schriber said OK. OK.

I’ll give you a brief overview of the program, what it does, requirements. And then we can probably go from there with the questions that will come up as we talk.

So, the certified local government program is an agreement between the local municipality, the state, and then the National Park Service. So, the National Park Service gives us kind of the broad guidelines of how a historic district should run, gives us outlines for design guidelines, that sort of framework. But then it comes down to the locals deciding what areas are significantly important to them, if they want to focus on survey, maybe you have something that needs to be rehabilitated. It really comes down to your all’s goals for your community. And then the state is kind of the pass-through between those two entities.

So, the reason that you would want to join the certified local government program is that it, one, offers technical assistance. So, that would be things like having a, you get a dedicated staff person, myself, who would help you figure out different survey techniques, because that is one of the requirements of the program, which we can talk about later. I would also help you figuring out maybe any design guidelines, updating your local historic district ordinance, things of that nature.

And then the second, probably larger draw for a lot of communities, is that it’s one of the only ways to get funding through our office. So, each year, we set aside 10% of our budget for the certified local government grant. Those grants range from about $2,500 to $75,000, and they have to be used towards either municipally-owned or non-profit-owned resources within a community. So, it can’t go to private homeowners, because it needs to go towards the greater good, like a civic building sort of thing.

So, we have, there’s different types of funding with that. The first would be more of the planning and pre-development work, so any sort of studies that might have to happen, condition assessment, maybe drawings, specifications, design guidelines are a big one as well. And then the other category would be development work, so more of that bricks and mortar sort of thing. You need a new roof for a building, you can apply for funding to get that repaired.

That being said, there are guidelines on what kind of work can happen, just because the National Park Service gives us the Secretary of Interior Standards saying what’s OK and what’s not OK. I think for some communities, this comes very naturally, especially if you already have a lot of historic resources you’re familiar with. If you have original wood siding, you want to keep that wood siding and not replace it with vinyl. Those are the kind of changes that would have to be filtered through our office. If you were to get the grant.

So yeah, let’s see. Let’s go through the requirements for the program now. So, on your smaller pamphlet, that would be page 6. (To Smith), Schriber said and I think that might be page 10 in the media. All right, so there are five requirements. Speak up? Avery said no, no. Schriber said oh, OK.

There are five requirements. The first is to have a local ordinance for historic districts. It sounds like the Village of Clarkston already has an ordinance on the books, so I just need to review that and make sure that it complies with state law. Just making sure that all those boxes are checked.

The second requirement is to appoint and maintain an active historic district commission, which you also already have, which is great. Once those two requirements are in place, the municipality can start the application process to become certified. Yep, right there.

OK, so the third requirement is to implement a strategy for ongoing incremental survey. Now, I think a lot of communities that hear this sound really intimidating, especially if you have hundreds of buildings in your community that are considered historic. But what it’s really asking for is that you have some sort of strategy in place. You can say you only want to survey maybe five to ten buildings per year or just updating existing survey. It’s just making sure that there’s some sort of effort underway to make sure that you’re aware of what resources you have. And as we all know, things become historic every year, and so just keeping your records updated for that sort of thing.

The fourth requirement is to provide for public participation in the local historic preservation program. So that means the public is allowed to participate in historic district commission meetings. They allow for public input for any of those decisions, your typical survey expectations.

And then the fifth is to meet the program requirements. Now, this means every year we have an annual report that’s submitted by a staff person for the municipality, and that reports on any events that you put on, if there were walking tours, those sorts of things, house tours, any sort of educational seminars, maybe partnerships with historical societies, libraries, just to keep us kind of updated on what’s going on in your community. But it’s about a ten-page document, pretty easy lift of just saying what was happening throughout the year.

So those are the five requirements. As you can see, the village is already doing two of them. So, yes.

Wylie said we did a survey, Michael’s here [Michael Moon, Historic District Commission member], does that survey fit the requirements for number three? Schriber said so, every year there has – Wylie said every year has to have that – (continuing), Schriber said there has to be some sort of survey. Wylie said it has to be updated. Schriber said not that scale, that was a very large, massive undertaking, but maybe doing like one or two buildings after that. Just some sort of plan to keep moving forward. Wylie said so, it’s still as good as a plan.

Wylie recognized Moon for a comment.

Moon said tell me if I’m wrong, but my understanding is that, we have like a standing committee, could be (unintelligible) people, and basically if they kept up with the actions of the Historic District Commission, recording the COAs [Certificates of Appropriateness] that have been granted and that work that had been done, that would probably – Schriber said you could use that to update the survey, right? (Moon made an unintelligible comment.) Schriber said yeah, you could do that. Wylie said said OK, thank you.

Schriber said so, that was really just kind of the broad overview of the requirements. Are there any questions about those?

Rodgers said how long has this program been in existence? I’m wondering why we haven’t talked about it before. Schriber said so, it’s been in existence, I think, since the 1960s. Wylie said I saw 1980, I thought. Schriber said oh, yes, 1966 is the Preservation Act, 1980 is when it was amended for a certified local government program. Michigan, I think our first one was 1982. But yeah, it is surprising since you guys have a national register listed district, and now this local one has been updated. So, and you’re already fulfilling those first two requirements.

Avery said so basically it gives us access to the grant program. Schriber said exactly. Avery said OK.

Wylie said but the grants, just to clarify, are only for public buildings? Schriber said yes, correct. Wylie said I don’t know that we have – (interrupting Wylie), Rodgers said so like with the park, like what we just talked about for electricity for the park, would that qualify? Schriber said that would be a very, I’d have to talk to our grants manager, because that’s not a built resource. If there’s some sort of, is that a historic park? Wylie said no, not really. Avery said I don’t know any historic buildings in the park. Schriber said OK, so I think your first question is going to be is it historic? Wylie said it actually isn’t. Schriber said is it in a district? Avery said I mean, the only city building that we have, we’re in. Wylie said yeah, this is it. Avery said this is it. Wylie said but it will become historic someday. Avery said yes. Although I guess, you know, if, this is just speculating, if some building became available that we would want to purchase for some reason, and it’s a historic building, we could use a grant to help with the financing of that. Schriber said right, or we could pass it through to a nonprofit. You could also use it for larger city efforts, like updating your ordinance or design guidelines, those sorts of things. Wylie said OK. Forte said master plan. Schriber said master plan, yeah.

Fisher said is there a range of the grant size? Schriber said yes. So, the low end is $2,500, and then the max for this year is $75,000. Fisher said well, OK. Wylie said you get his attention.

Wylie said anybody else have questions?

Schriber said with the grants, there’s no match required. Wylie said oh, that’s good. That’s good. Great.

Wylie recognized Guillen for a comment.

Guillen said can you please touch on, we talked about repairing that brick wall that’s on Main Street. You said that grant could be used for that. Schriber said potentially, we would have to run that through National Park Service. If that is, let’s say, a historic feature of the village, then there could be an argument for that. Wylie said that’s a good point, because we do have stone walls, for sure. Schriber said right. Wylie said I don’t know about the brick wall, but good.

Wylie said OK. Okay. Anybody else?

No comments.

(To Schriber), Wylie said thank you for coming. Did you come from Lansing? Schriber said I came from Franklin (unintelligible). Wylie said well, Well, I appreciate it. Schriber said thank you. Fisher said thank you.

Forte said what’s the next step? Wylie said so, we’ve got the first two done. I think probably the Historic District Commission would probably – (interrupting Wylie), Jones said I think they need to discuss it. Wylie said something to – (interrupting Wylie), Rodgers said do we have to approve Schriber’s next step? Schriber said so, the next step would be submitting your local ordinance, which I already have a copy of, that will be reviewed to make sure it complies with state law. And then you can start the application. Wylie said so, start the application. Schriber said I believe in the long form of the manual, there’s a – Wylie said is it in there – (continuing), Schriber said copy of the application. Yep. And then our website also has application instructions. So, Smith has all that. Wylie said OK.

Wylie recognized Moon for a comment.

Moon said and also, I believe that you require resumes from Historic District Commissioners, correct? Schriber said yes. Moon said and I was going to bring that up at the commission meeting tomorrow. Schriber said OK. Great.

Wylie said so, Moon’s the head of our Historic District Commission if you didn’t know. Moon said no. I’m – Wylie said oh, you’re not? Moon said I’m the secretary. Wylie said oh, you’re secretary. I just promoted you. (Unintelligible comment.) Wylie said oh, that’s right. I forgot. Yeah. OK.

Rodgers said so, do we have to, like, do anything in order to allow that to go on? To move forward with that? Yeah. Smith said well, I’ll have to look at the application and see what’s involved in that, to see if I need to bring that back to council. Forte said should we just voice our support at this point? Smith said that would be helpful. Forte said OK, I support this moving forward. I don’t know about everyone else, but – (interrupting Forte), Rodgers said I don’t know, what would be a drawback? Forte said yeah. Fisher said right. Rodgers said can anybody see a drawback? Avery said well, just the administrative engine. Because they’re going to have to keep updating the base every year, but if they have it on a spreadsheet already, it should be fairly simple. Rodgers said that’s probably a good idea. Avery said right. Smith said and if they’re doing that as part of the certificate of appropriateness, so if somebody submits a request for a work order, that would be the time to update that probably. Avery said yeah. Smith said I would say two or three of those would give you the accomplishment requirement.

Wylie said anybody else?

No comments.

Wylie said thank you.

Item #10c – Motion: Election Commission Appointments or Renewals (video time mark 0:29:56):

    • Motion – Election Commission Appointments (page 95/110 of the council packet)

Wylie said we are on Item #10c, Motion, Election Commission Appointments or Renewals. How did I miss that page? OK. Avery said here I’ve got it. Wylie said I thought I had it marked. Here we go. Avery said it’s right at the back. Wylie said thank you. Motion, Election, Commission, Appointments.

(Wylie read the motion.)

Wylie said and I will need a motion in support to appoint city clerk Angie Guillen, city manager Jonathan Smith, and qualified registered elector Evelyn Bihl to the city election commission effective immediately, and city clerk Angie Guillen shall be the chairperson. So, I need a motion.

Motion by Jones.

Wylie said is there, I’m sorry. I’m writing on your paper. Is there a second?

Second, Casey.

Wylie said discussion from council?

No discussion.

Wylie said from the public?

No discussion.

Motion to approve election commission appointments passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said let’s see. Again, Guillen is the chair. Smith is the qualified registered elector, and Evelyn Bihl. Anyway, all three of those are on that commission. Thank you.

Is there something on the back? Jones said the next one. Wylie said the next one. There we go. No, I went all the way to the Middle Lake Road. That’s why it caught my eye.

Item #10d – Motion: Planning Commission Appointments or Renewals (video time mark 0:31:57):

    • Motion – Planning Commission Appointments (page 96/110 of the council packet)

Wylie said now we have Item #10d, Motion, Planning Commission Appointments or Renewals, and we have nominations for, to renew Kevin Knapp or appoint somebody else through June 2029, renew Andy North or appoint somebody through June 2029, and we need a motion and a second to accept the above list of nominations, and I assume both Knapp and North are aware of this. OK.

Motion by Rodgers; second Forte.

Wylie said any discussion from council members?

Quisenberry said who is the chair of it? Forte said Derek Werner. Quisenberry said Derek? Forte and Wylie said Derek Werner.

Wylie said anybody else on council comments or questions?

No comments.

Wylie said from the public?

No comments.

Motion to approve planning commission appointments passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said Knapp and North are both appointed. Thank you very much.

Item #10e – Motion: Military Hometown Heroes Banner Program (J. Kunse) (video time mark 0:33:10):

    • Motion – Military Hometown Heroes Banner Program (page 97/110 of the council packet)
    • Military Hometown Heroes Banner Program (page 98/110 of the council packet)

Wylie said now we have Item #10d, Motion, Planning Commission. Thanks for taking care of me. Wylie said military. And planning commission? Oh, I’ve got no planning commission. Jones said no, we’re on military hometown heroes banner. Wylie said Motion, Military Hometown Heroes Banner Program.

(Wylie read the motion.)

Wylie said and since Kunse’s standing up, we’ll let her talk, and then we can take motions on this. (To Kunse), Wylie said thank you.

Joette Kunse

OK, everywhere I put flags, I meant banners, really. It was just a late-night kind of thing.

So, I did, I’m a veteran, but I will tell you when I caught up with the military when I was 21 years old, it was like, well, I’m with my life and whatever. And this veteran thing has kind of boomed lately. And the difference is when I was in my childhood or whatever, there were 11% of people had a veteran close by, either a veteran in their home or somewhere. In today’s world, there’s one. One percent of people have veterans.

And Lakeview Cemetery has 1,152 veterans in this cemetery, which is about 11% of the cemetery is veterans, actually. I was just looking at the reason there is a lot of Clarkston and Independence Township veterans that are at Great Lakes today. I mean, there’s 55,000 burials out there, but it didn’t open until 2005. So, Clarkston has always been an area where there’s lots of veterans, 62 Union soldiers in Lakeview Cemetery, two Revolutionary War soldiers, War of 1812, a couple.

So, there’s just a lot of military here, and we’ve always been very patriotic. So, you know, as I, probably the same as you, go around Michigan, I see hometown heroes in some of these places. (Kunse unfurled a poster.) Now, these are not the size we’re looking at, but I brought them to see so that you could see. This actually, this Mr. Santilli (spelling?) is a relative of the Towers in some way. And they just gave me a model here. And it’s probably too big for our, it’s too big for our light poles, I think. Wylie said OK. Kunse said and I’m not sure. We would have to get something that works for our light poles. But they’re vinyl, and so they will last.

Our proposal is that, as in many communities, the veteran’s family or an organization purchase them. And so, this would be paid for by the family or organization. We’re proposing, and this may be a little too, that they, that we get this all together by September, so they could be hung in September. I will tell you, Lapeer, I think it was the 9th, they had their hometown heroes, and they have a lot of streets, so they have a lot more. By 3:00 in the afternoon, the applications were closed. So, it’s a very popular program. They do it from Memorial Day until Veterans Day. We, I don’t know what you’re going to do with your light poles, but we thought if it was from September to November to past Veterans Day, that would be a good place, a good piece for that. We have seen that some communities, Farmington’s another community, Adrian’s another community, and there are plenty of them out there. Quisenberry said Ortonville has them. Ortonville has them. Kunse said yes, Ortonville does have them, but just recently, not too long. And they’re very, their VFW [Veterans of Foreign Wars] is really quite active, so I’m not surprised about that.

They, they, some communities do charge like an extra $20 to have it placed, so we could do that, you know, working with you and Smith, if you would let us do this. I represent Sashabaw Plains DAR [Daughters of the American Revolution], and I do have friends, but it seems like there’s a party tonight and, you know, there’s another meeting tonight and whatever, so I’m here on my own kind of. But we are committed to that, the DAR, and the America 250. The America 250 Committee, I don’t know, has anybody, I know, (to Wylie), Kunse said, you have seen the video, right? Wylie said yes. Kunse said yeah, the video of the Declaration of Independence reading. Well, I have, I’ll give you a little, the, what do I want to say, where to find it. Sixty-five people in our community read the Declaration of Independence. Kids, anybody, I think there were probably 5 to 89. It’s very interesting. So, but, so our thing is we would create the application, just take somebody else’s and fix it up. We would charge, we think it’s somewhere between $60 and $80, and that we would place them on the light pole. And so, to get more, we would have the sleeve, but we would have somebody on the back so that you could have 36 versus 18.

And we also would like to say the America 250 Committee, it was called the Clarkston Independence America 250 Committee. Well, you know, and our committee members felt really positive about this because our mailing address is Clarkston. Our kids go to Clarkston schools. You know, somebody didn’t feel, the supervisor wasn’t there. But anyway, it came out that Clarkston Independence, and so if you see it on anything, our T-shirts or whatever, you will see Clarkston Independence. And so, you know, there will be, what we also want to do is, my dad, my dad is buried in Lakeview. I don’t think my dad should be on a pole. He never lived here. My husband, on the other hand, he’s lived here for 60 years. So, our thing was, if you have lived in this community, then that’s, you know, you should be able to do that. But just because you’re buried there isn’t the same thing. So, and even, we’ll say, there’s a veteran and he lives in Chicago, but he grew up here, he should be there.

Rodgers said and they can still be alive, right? Kunse said you can be alive or deceased, either one. It’s a choice, or it’s a family choice, actually. So, I think, you know, we’re going to maintain a waiting list and we’ll have to do something because I think we’ll be over, I think we’ll be overrun. Wylie said I think so, too. Kunse said and so, if you’re up here in ‘26, you may not be up here in ‘27. But you can come back, you know. We can keep it and you can come back. If there’s, you know, however that goes.

So, we’d like to be able to, well, we’d like to be able to get going on the advertising and we’d like your permission to use your poles. So, do you have any questions?

Jones said so, I understand that those are a different one, like not the right size, and I understand that this is a mock-up. Do you have a final design idea for what the banner will look like? Kunse said it’s going to look very similar to this one. Let’s see, I shouldn’t say it. I don’t want to say it. Forte said do you want me to hold one? Kunse said yeah. So, we like the lettering on this one because it’s block versus this one. Jones said yeah, yeah. Kunse said we do like the colors of this one. Jones said OK. Kunse said but it’s going to be very close to this. Jones said OK, yeah. Giving approval on these things ahead of time is important to get locked down.

Casey said how big are they going to be? Kunse said well, we’re going to have to get up there and measure what. Smith said it’s probably very close. Very close to that.

(To Smith), Jones said help me out on this one. Do we have one standard size for the banners or are there two different sizes that are available on those lampposts? Because I feel like there’s some short ones and then there are some tall ones. Smith said so, the short poles have shorter spans of the two poles to come up. The larger poles have larger spans between the two horizontal poles. Avery said and there are some banners up right now. (Unintelligible crosstalk among council members.)  Jones said yeah, so it’s a matter of determining how many short poles we have and how many long we have. (Wylie made an unintelligible comment.) Jones said because I would imagine that you all would want these to go on the – (interrupting Jones), Casey said it says the taller ones. Jones said the larger ones, OK. Kunse said the taller poles, yeah. Jones said OK, and that’s the 18, OK, cool. Kunse said we don’t want to cause any accidents, but we would like people to be able to see them. Jones said yeah, no, exactly, yeah. Wylie said and I assume you’re going to have to increase the cost a little bit to pay for the advertising. Kunse said yeah, yeah. Wylie said OK. Kunse said we’re working on that piece, yeah. I mean, we’re not going to create a group. We’re going to use the America 250 group and DAR. Wylie said OK.

(To Smith), Wylie said so, do we need to ask for a little extra money to have the DPW put them up? Smith said that’s entirely up to us. Wylie said that’s up to us, OK. Smith said whether you want to just use city funds to install them, essentially paying Turner’s time. Or you would like this to be reimbursed. Kunse said yeah. What we’re looking at is, you know, keeping the sleeve together. So, you really are only putting up 18. Jones said yeah. Kunse said you know, this sleeve would be just one. It would be one sleeve. Wylie said OK. Kunse said but you would see, you know, John Smith there and Jerry Jones here or whatever. Jones said so, one banner with two sides. Kunse said two sides, yeah. Jones said it wouldn’t be two separate banners going up. Kunse said no, no. Jones said yeah.

Avery said just a quick question. With Cara [Catallo], we had, she was working on banners through Main Street Clarkston, correct? Catallo said yeah. We were actually talking about doing the same thing. Avery said OK, just wanna, I don’t wanna – Catallo said I told you that, but it didn’t apparently matter. But we know, we know the sizes, so we can give the sizes to her. Avery said OK. Catallo said and I would suggest maybe including the shorter ones because they’re certainly a lot easier for people to see, too. And there are so many more of the lower ones than there are of the taller ones. I think it would make some sense. I mean, it would be a slightly different look because they’re shorter, obviously. But it would be a lot easier for people to see. It’s going to be really, really hard to see that way up high, I think. I think it would make more sense to have the photos be larger than that just for visibility. And I can also provide like sort of the cost through the people we’ve worked with and our banners made because we had priced out the taller banners recently. But, yeah, we were, this has been on our radar for about, I would say, three or four years, largely in part because of Main Street Ortonville’s work with those banners. And those look so sharp. I just went to Ortonville the other day, and it looks great. So, we’ve been wanting to do this for a very long time. (Avery made an unintelligible comment.)

Wylie recognized Rodgers for a comment.

Rodgers said yeah, I just know that, you know, those placards that we have throughout town, people stop and look at those, and those are all purchased by the homeowners that they are in front of. Avery said oh, yeah, yeah. Rodgers said and so I just think it adds a really nice, unique, historical aspect to our town. They, you see people walking in the evening and in the morning, and they’re not, they might be having, you know, breakfast or dinner downtown, and then they take a walk. And I just think it adds a lot of charm and (unintelligible).

Avery said yeah, I mean, if your, if DAR is going to administer the program, my thought is, at least for the first year, that we just incorporate it into the DPW’s business. But if we find somehow that it’s becoming too cumbersome and we need to maybe be reimbursed, we can always come back. Maybe come back in a year or so and bring that up. Kunse said that’s right. Avery said yeah. We’ll see how it works. Kunse said you know, there will be a, there’s always an increase in products. Avery said yeah. Kunse said so, you know, and that we could just, so we have seen that. You know, that makes it not, not a, it’s something for your budget.

Wylie recognized Jones for a comment.

Jones said yeah, OK. So, it appears we have two competing banner projects and, like, a lamp post thing. And also, the lamp post, in terms of, like, figuring out this cost, this is an issue that I have brought up before, not in a meeting, but separately. Like, with Coté, in terms of we were talking about revenue, I think that it would be worth having an official city guideline for our banners for the lamp posts. Like, an actual proper program, and that way we can, we can account, like, you know, if people have the banners, that this is what the cost is for it. And, you know, per approval, like, with city council, that sort of thing. I think that it’s worth having something like that drafted up, reviewed, so that we could enact that so that we would have a cost structure in place. We would know what Turner and Danis’s work would be in terms of how we would cover that. And also, it would provide us another opportunity to sell that, like, to provide that lamp post banner space for, like, other, like, businesses or sponsorship opportunities that could bring in some other, like, a smaller form of revenue. And that way, you know, it wouldn’t just be, like, during Veterans Day or Memorial Day, and we could do things throughout the year. And, you know, I know the Chamber probably wouldn’t be involved, given, you know, that they’ve got their own program thing. And that way, we could have both banner programs come back and present themselves, and we could pick out which one we’d like the best. Rodgers said well, one is free, and one costs $500. So, there’s a difference right there.

Jones said I was under the impression that the other one was being paid out of the America 250 budget. Rodgers said didn’t I hear that it was $250 last week? Jones said no, it was there. So, we have two programs that have banners that are being paid for by someone else that they want to hang up on our lamp posts, and they both want to do the same thing. So, we should see what – (interrupting Jones), Rodgers said what did you guys vote? I was not here last meeting. Jones said no, this is before. This is, this is, yeah, this isn’t the last meeting, because I wasn’t at the last meeting either. Rodgers said oh. Jones said yeah, so, yeah, there’s a lot of banners. (Wylie made an unintelligible comment.) Rodgers said well, I’ve never seen anything from other than those American ones. Jones said because we haven’t, we haven’t seen them yet. It is all with – (interrupting Jones), Rodgers said so how do you know about it? Jones said because we talked about it in meetings earlier this year. And I was, like, I’ve been trying to, the banners are a thing. So, what I’m saying is if we’ve got two competing banner programs. (Catallo attempted to interject.) Wylie said hang on, let her finish. Jones said yeah, I was just going to say, like, let’s get a proper lamp posting, like, that we could review for the next, by next meeting. That’s two weeks. And then if we have this, if there are competing banner programs, then we can vote on which one we want. That’s what I was, yeah, just trying to cut through a lot of things that are going to get brought up now. Avery said that’s what I just asked her, and she said it wasn’t on the contract.

Wylie recognized Catallo for a comment.

Catallo said oh, thank you. So, yeah, I don’t know if the $500 is for something that isn’t this, that these would have paid for themselves. And probably we would have done it so that it would have covered Turner’s cost. Because I’ve talked to Turner about how much time it takes to do these. But I, we’re happy to step back if Kunse’s group wants to do it. It’s one less thing that we get to do, so it’s fine. I would maybe request that somebody either on council or Main Street Clarkston be invited into the group that’s making the decision-making. Since it is our town and our banners, it seems like a good idea. As far as a form, I created one. Now I don’t even know how long ago it was, but maybe somebody remembers. But I can send it along to see if that’s sort of the direction you want to go in. But it was a form as far as somebody applying to put banners up. And with the council, I asked the council to decide what the cost should be. Because I don’t think, because of our financial situation, anything should be just gratis all the time. But, but, yeah, so, I mean, I can forward that along, or you can – (interrupting Catallo), Jones said yeah, because I’m self-volunteering to be our lamp post lady, basically. Like, I mean, for lack of a better – (interrupting Jones), Wylie said I like the, I like your title. Jones said yeah, I mean, yeah, just because I’ve got an idea. Like, I can draft something. I can talk to you about it. Like, so we can put something and have it formal on paper instead of just everyone being a piecemeal discussion. Like, let’s just get something formalized and make it official. Because, again, I love this. And, like, if you guys like you guys are ready and, like, so I want to make sure that we get it and we get it all ready and that there’s no questions when everything goes live. And because I want to see, I want to see this pulled off spectacularly.

Avery said so, we should table this? Wylie said well, I don’t, that’s up to us. (To Kunse), Wylie said what kind of time frame are you working with? I know you said you’d like to have these up by September. Kunse said well, you know, the biggest problem, the biggest time thing is to get them, to get them created, actually. So, we would, I mean, I would be happy to, well, I don’t know. I, I would like to be able to offer it to the community in August and to get it up in 90 days. (Unintelligible crosstalk between Wylie and Kunse.) Kunse said it’s a month and a half.

Wylie recognized Forte for a comment. (Unintelligible comments from Jones and Quisenberry.)

Forte said I don’t want to table it. I want to make a motion.

(To Quisenberry), Wylie said did you have something you were talking about? Quisenberry said no. Wylie said no. (Jones and Quisenberry continued their discussion.)

Wylie said OK, so we have never made a motion. So, we have this proposal, and if anybody would like to make a motion to support. (To Forte), Wylie said go ahead, you can make a motion.

Forte said I want to make a motion to approve. Wylie said, so Forte makes a motion to approve this. And I would need a second to move on. Second, Rodgers.

Wylie said OK, any other discussion?

Forte said can we add to the next agenda to bring back that form that Catallo did, and maybe you two can talk and, like, talk to Fisher just separately before the next meeting? Just to – (interrupting Forte), Jones said like I could, I could, I will literally bring it as an agenda item. Yeah, I can do that.

Wylie recognized Avery for a comment. Wylie said no, no, you’re – Avery said I’m thinking, but I’m thinking we’re making this more complicated than it needs to be, one, number two, Kunse said that she already has a form pretty much created. You can create a form – (interrupting Avery), Kunse said well, I have (unintelligible), I have Farmington’s, I have, you know. I mean, I understand what you’re saying. Wylie said you’re talking two different forms. You’re talking about a form – (interrupting Wylie), Kunse said for families, and you’re here talking about a form for the city to use to – (interrupting Wylie), Avery said when we don’t have your banners up? Is that what you’re saying? Wylie said well, for anybody to get, I think what – Kunse said yeah. Wylie said what they’re talking about is some form where people who would like permission to put a banner up – (interrupting Wylie), Avery said OK, just generally. Wylie said so, there’s two different banners. Jones said yeah, like, if you want a banner, this is what it is, and this is how much it would cost you to have it installed. Like, just saying – (interrupting Jones), Wylie said it’s a good idea, because all of a sudden we’re talking banners every meeting. Jones said yeah, because we don’t have anything that addresses it, and so this is just like, let’s have language that addresses it. Wylie said just like we addressed the park use. Jones said no, we can, because we’re approved, I’m, I’m assuming, I’m assuming this is getting approved, and like we can, if we, and if we are able to get a cost structure in place, you all would agree to that, I’m assuming. Because it’s not, it’s, again, it’s not, it’s more just to cover costs and make sure. So, yeah. All right.

Wylie recognized Catallo for a comment.

Catallo said well, I just, I would, I would hope that the council would ask if it’s a fundraiser, just because that aspect seemed to be missing from the lamp post discussion. Wylie said she’s shaking her head no. And it’s a non-profit group. Catallo said right. Which is great. Wylie said not that that’s, yeah, and like most of us, I’ve seen these all over different communities, and they’re wonderful. So, I’m glad both of you have brought these ideas to Clarkston.

Wylie said any other discussion?

Wylie recognized Casey for a comment.

Casey said if we draft up something, I think it should be limited to non-profits, non-commercial. Wylie said for a permission to put banners up, OK. Rodgers said I like that. Forte said I agree. Rodgers said I agree.

Wylie said anything else from anybody in the public or from the council?

No comments.

Wylie said OK, we’re going to do a roll call on this. So, it’s a motion by Forte, supported by Rodgers, to approve the Military Hometown Heroes Banner Program as proposed in the attached document.

(To Guillen), Wylie said do you mind taking a roll call, please?

Jones, Quisenberry, Rodgers, Wylie, Avery, Casey, and Forte voted yes.

Wylie said and the motion is adopted. (To Kunse), Wylie said thank you very much for bringing this to our attention. (To Catallo), Wylie said again, thank you for also keeping up with this. She was here first, I guess. (Catallo made an unintelligible comment.) Wylie said I know. I know. And you’ll keep us up to date with what’s going on and be in touch with Smith, and Smith, so, I mean, if we decide, so, I guess since we did not choose to add a cost to it, I think we’re maybe kind of going along with Avery’s idea that let’s start off with the city as – (interrupting Wylie), Jones said what, that I, that’s what I was saying to her – Wylie said take one and pass it on – (continuing), Jones said is that if we got something in place by the next meeting, that they would agree to the cost structure that we put in place. Wylie said oh, OK. OK. Jones said yeah. Wylie said thank you.

Kunse said I’m just getting you the Voices of Independence, Clarkston and Independence Township, that read the Declaration of Independence, which, I,  it’ll make you proud. It will make you proud. There’s two five-year-olds in there. Wylie said oh. Kunse said and that’s not a document that is very easy to read. Fisher said well, if they can read it all, that’s pretty good. (To Smith), Wylie said you’re in it, aren’t you? Kunse said basically, it’s a YouTube channel of Independence Township. Thank you very much. Wylie said go all the way to the end. I’m the last line. Forte said you are? Wylie said yeah, I said I want the last one. I think I’m the last one. I want the shortest one. I forget which.

Item #10f – Resolution: 69 S. Main Street Retaining Wall Repairs (video time mark 0:57:18):

    • Resolution – 69 S. Main Steet Retaining Wall Repairs (page 100/110 of the council packet)
    • Bid Comparison (page 101/110 of the council packet)
    • Photos (page 102/110 of the council packet)
    • Quotation, Michigan Chimney Repair and Sweep (page 104/110 of the council packet)

Wylie said OK. Moving on. We are on Item #10f, Resolution, 69 South Main Street Retaining Wall Repairs. And here it is.

(Wylie read the resolution.)

Wylie said and I’ll need somebody to make this resolution and somebody to support.

Resolution by Jones; second Quisenberry.

Wylie said is there any questions or comments or discussion from council members?

Avery said I’ve got an estimate here from Orozco’s Concrete (unintelligible). Smith said that’s the next one. Wylie said that’s where the culverts were. Avery said oh, OK (unintelligible).

Wylie said anything else from council members?

No comments.

Wylie said and anything from the public?

Wylie recognized Moon for a comment.

(To Smith), Moon said we’ll need to, I believe we’ll need to make an application. Wylie said to the historic district? OK.

Rodgers said do they give any kind of like, what do you call it? Wylie said guarantee? Rodgers said yeah. Smith said no, they don’t. Rodgers said I mean, it’s been 25 years since it was put in, so I guess that’s a pretty good run. Smith said yeah. No, they can’t guarantee (unintelligible). It’s about 30 years old now, or older, so it had a pretty good run. Rodgers said yeah.

Wylie said so, it’s just crumbling brick? It’s not that the dirt behind it is pushing it out? Smith said it’s a little bowed. There is one point where it’s bowed out. Wylie said OK. Smith said and he feels he can fix that. Wylie said OK. Smith said he’s going to have to tear the wall down slightly to achieve that, and then build it back up with new bricks, still the same reclaimed brick look. And we’ll make the application to the HDC (Historic District Commission) at their meeting tomorrow night. And if it’s possible, we might get that on the agenda. We want to get this going this summer. So, it’s all one for one, like for like. But I’ll submit an application. Moon said we have an agenda for tomorrow night already, but I think we can also do something else.

Quisenberry said I think we need to add another whereas. Wylie said which one? (Quisenberry made an unintelligible comment.) Wylie said I can’t hear you. Wylie said I think we’re going to need to add another whereas to include historic district approval. Wylie said OK.

Wylie said all right. So, what Quisenberry says is he believes we need to have another whereas to include historic district, whereas historic district approval will be obtained. Quisenberry said yes. Jones and Quisenberry, is that? Jones said yes. Quisenberry said that’s perfect.

Forte said so, they’re not rebuilding it. They’re just kind of like cleaning it up. Smith said repairing it. Rebuilding in spots because of that bow in the wall. But it’s primarily just taking off the decayed bricks and putting on new bricks, and then re-tuck pointing the whole wall. Forte said and they didn’t say anything about putting, like, drainage stone behind it with a pipe, like whatever the – Smith said no, that wasn’t discussed. That’s a bigger deal if we want to do that. Forte said yeah. Smtih said I understand your point. We could do that, but that would be making a much larger project. Forte said yeah. Smith said I figure it’s by this long, maybe it already has drainage behind it. Forte said it could. Who knows? Smith said yeah.

Wylie said any other discussion or questions or comments from anybody?

No comments.

Wylie said OK. We will need a roll call.

Casey, Avery, Quisenberry, Jones, Wylie, Rogers, and Forte voted yes.

Wylie said and the resolution is adopted. Thank you, everybody.

Item #10g – Resolution: 6330 Middle Lake Road Curbing and Catch Basin (video time mark 1:03:07):

    • Resolution – 6330 Middle Lake Road Curbing and Catch Basin (page 107/110 of the council packet)
    • Photos (page 108/110 of the council packet)
    • Estimate, Orozco’s Concrete & Construction (page 109/110 of the council packet)

Wylie said and we are on Item #10g, Resolution, 6330 Middle Lake Road Curbing and Catch Basin.

(Wylie read the resolution.)

Wylie said and I’ll need somebody to resolve and support.

Resolution by Jones; second Rodgers.

Wylie said and discussion or comments from council members?

Wylie said how come we only have one bid, not three? Smith said well, because Orozco was previously vetted by the city. Wylie said and vetted means we don’t have to? Smith said well, it means that we got three quotes and so – Rodgers said for another project? Smith said yeah, for another project. Wylie said and that was how long ago? How long ago were those projects? Smith said one was last year and one was the year before. Wylie said OK. Avery said but they were different projects, correct? Smith  said still curb and gutter, though. Yeah, separate projects, but curb and gutter projects that are very similar. And Orozco did an outstanding job at that on those at a reasonable price. He was the sole bidder on those two. Jones said but we – (interrupting Jones), Smith said the problem that you run into, I recognize that it is the ordinance, city ordinance that we get three quotes.  But it’s difficult. I’m not saying from Smith’s time, don’t misunderstand me. I’m not saying I don’t want to do it. It’s more about getting bidders, getting contracts. Wylie said getting response. Smith said once they realize they didn’t get the job last time they bid on us, next time I knock on their door for a bid, they don’t even respond. Quisenberry said which is what happened with the last issue. Smith said what’s that? Quisenberry said which is what happened with the last one. We only got one. Smith said we got one of the five. Jones said I mean, are we calling them back? Are we getting someone on the phone? And, like, what are they saying about the – Smith said all five of those in the previous one, I contacted twice. Once for the original bid and once as a follow-up saying, can you send me your quote? (Smith made an unintelligible comment.)

[Clarkston Sunshine note: Section 30.17 of the code of ordinances requires “competitive bidding” on contracts of $500 or more but doesn’t specify three bids.]

Jones said and what was – (interrupting Jones), Avery said yeah, and I’m comfortable with that because at least you put it out there that we made the effort. Here, we’re just saying, well, they did it a couple of times ago, so. And we could have used that same reasoning with the parking lot, restriping it. But we didn’t. Wylie said yeah, we didn’t. Avery said even though Doug’s had done it in previous years. But I feel like we have (unintelligible) – (interrupting Avery), Wylie said I agree. I think we need to get some, even if nothing comes back, I think the effort – (interrupting Wylie), Jones said I can move to table it.

Wylie said anybody else? Is there any other discussion before we move to that?

No comments.

Wylie said OK, so you’re going to make a motion to table it? Jones said I will motion to table this until we get three quotes. Second Avery.

Wylie said any discussion or comments on that?

No comments.

Motion to table passed with Casey voting no.

Wylie said we are, I’m sorry, there’s one? Casey said no. Wylie said OK, so we have, we still, we are, oh, I don’t know. Avery said six to one. Wylie said we don’t, we don’t have to be unanimous on tabling, do we? Fisher said no. Wylie said that’s something else. OK

Wylie said OK, so we are tabling it until hopefully the next meeting.

Item #10h – Resolution: MML [Michigan Municipal League] General Conference in October 2026 (video time mark 1:07:36):

    • Resolution – MML General Conference in October 2026 (page 110/110 of the council packet

Wylie said Item #10h, Resolution, MML General Conference in October 2026.

(Wylie read the resolution.)

Resolution by Avery; second Casey.

Wylie said and discussion from council members.

Rodgers said this is just a necessary thing for Smith to do. Wylie said you said it’s a necessary thing? Rodgers said I believe so. You need it for networking, you need it for new information, you need it for new ideas, bridge bonding, building, all that, for all of those things. Anybody that’s a professional needs to have continuing education, and that is what happens at these conferences. So, $1,100 would be money well spent.

Wylie said anybody else on council?

Wylie said if nothing else, I know you brought those engineers from, I think that’s where you got those engineers who have been working with us, and I think they’ve been a great addition. Smith said Fleis and Vandenbrink, yes.

Wylie said anybody in the public, comments or questions?

Wylie recognized Catallo for a comment.

Catallo said I think it would be great if you could give a presentation afterwards, just sort of sharing some of the information, since he’s using taxpayer dollars for this, and also I was curious if the city would be covering the cost for mileage, just because I feel like that’s an additional thing to remember, and I’m not saying that conferences aren’t great, they’re great, but it’s taxpayer dollars, and I just feel like the community should also benefit a little bit from it. Wylie said thank you.

Wylie said anybody else in the public or council?

Jones said well, I mean, what about the mileage question? I mean, she did ask that. Wylie said well, you’re not asking for mileage or meals? Jones said yeah, we’re not doing mileage. Smith said mileage is submitted on a quarterly basis – Wylie said OK – so whether it’s mileage going to here to East (unintelligible) or here to Oakland County or to Traverse City, it’s all submitted on a quarterly basis.

Rodgers said I think it would just be short-sighted not to have one of our leaders attend a conference – Casey said absolutely – (continuing), Rodgers made an unintelligible comment.

(To Guillen), Wylie said OK, let’s do a roll call, please.

Rodgers, Wylie, Avery, Casey, Forte, and Quisenberry voted yes. Jones voted no.

Wylie said and the resolution is adopted. Thank you very much.

Item #10i – Confidential Letter from the City Attorney (video time mark 1:11:26)

Wylie said Item #10i, Confidential Letter from the City Attorney. So, I guess at this point we’re going to have to – Fisher said have a motion for a closed session – (continuing), Wylie said we have to move to have a closed session. OK.

Motion by Forte; second Quisenberry.

[Clarkston Sunshine note: The motion did not state the purpose for calling the closed session, as required by the open meetings act, MCL 15.267(1).]

Wylie said any discussion from council members?

No comments.

Wylie said from the public?

No comments.

(Wylie began to take a voice vote.) Guillen said roll call, sorry. Wylie said oh, it’s a roll call, sorry. (To Guillen), Wylie said if you would do a roll call, please.

Forte, Jones, Wylie, Rodgers, Avery, and Casey voted yes. It’s unclear from the video recording if Quisenberry also voted yes.

Wylie said OK, that’s it. So, the meeting is going to be closed. (To the videographer), Wylie said so, Jeannie, you’ve got to turn everything off. And when we come back, we’re not, all we’re going to do is adjourn the meeting. Jeannie said so, I’m done. Wylie said so, you are done. Rodgers said thank you. Wylie said and was she, did she drive herself home? Jones said yeah, no, she, yeah, she’s going to, I just, we were going to take a break before we start. Wylie said yeah, we can take a quick break and people can use the restroom if they need to. Oh, yeah, time. It is at this point 8:12. Thank you.

Agenda Item #11, Adjourn Meeting:

Because the mayor sent the videographer home, there is no record of adjournment or of any vote taken when the council reconvened to take any action, for example, to follow the recommendation of the city attorney (which requires a vote in an open meeting). In the past, the city council made sure the videographer recorded the reopening and closure. Not only has mayor Wylie stopped this practice, but the city has also developed a habit of refusing to tell the public what the topic of the closed session is. Secret meetings, secret topics. If you want to know what the closed session topic is, you have to send a carefully worded FOIA request and be prepared to sue the city if it refuses to provide the topic – which is the antithesis of open and transparent government.

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