January 22, 2024 City Council Meeting

Introduction:

Links to the video recording and the council packet are at the bottom of this post. Please note any errors or omissions in the comments. Anything noted in brackets was inserted by Clarkston Sunshine.

Agenda Item #1, Call to Order

The meeting was not formally called to order.

Agenda Item #2, Pledge of Allegiance (Video time mark 0:00:02):

Sue Wylie said if everybody would please rise, and they will say the Pledge of Allegiance.

Pledge said.

Wylie thanked everyone.

Agenda Item #3, Roll Call (Video time mark 0:00:20):

Wylie said Item #3 is a roll call and asked Karen [DeLorge, city clerk] if she would please do the roll call.

Sue Wylie, Gary Casey, Amanda Forte, Ted Quisenberry, and Peg Roth were present.

DeLorge noted that Mark Lamphier and Laura Rodgers were absent.

Wylie thanked DeLorge.

Agenda Item #4, Approval of Agenda (Video time mark 0:00:42):

Wylie said Item #4 is approval of the agenda, they needed a motion to approve the agenda, and she asked if anybody would like to make a motion.

Motion by Roth; second Casey.

Wylie asked if there was any discussion.

No discussion.

Motion to accept the agenda approved by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said it’s approved.

Agenda Item #5, Public Comments (Video time mark 0:01:07):

[Though public comments can sometimes irritate the city council, there is value to both the council and the public in hearing them. While they can’t eliminate public comments entirely without violating the Open Meetings Act, your city council has occasionally decided not to acknowledge public comments during a city council meeting unless the person submitting the comments also appears at the meeting (in-person or electronically) to personally read them. In the past, members of the public have been cut off for exceeding the city council’s arbitrary three-minute time limit (it’s arbitrary because no time limits are required by the Open Meetings Act).

If your public comments were submitted to the council but not read, or if you tried to make public comments but your comments were cut short, please email them to clarkstonsunshine@gmail.com and I will include them in my informal meeting summaries either under public comments or under the specific agenda item that you want to speak to.]

Wylie said Item #5 is public comments and read the rules for public comments.

Wylie asked if anybody present at the meeting would like to make a public comment.

No comments.

Wylie said OK, nobody here.

Wylie said they do have one e-mail that was received, she thinks, by everybody on council. Wylie read the comment [from Chet Pardee].

Chet Pardee:

Good evening.

Wow! Jonathan [Smith, city manager] created 30 pages from Monday’s council meeting to Wednesday, December 13^th, to submit the placemaking grant submission to General Motors. Quite a contrast with the June 8, 2022, finance committee decision in being unable to submit 100 words maximum to the State of Michigan in August (more than 60 days) for a ballot proposal to replace expiring government obligation bonds with tax millage.

Pardee continues to look for the planning commission’s calculation of how much the city will give up if parking deferment is not applied to Rudy’s. Pardee understands the issues, but Robert [Esshaki, owner of the former Rudy’s Market and the Clarkston News building where he plans to build two additional restaurants] did say in a council meeting he would pay for parking. Pardee raised the issue in a planning commission meeting, and no one had done the calculation.

Last year’s finance committee did not have time to discuss tax millage. Nor did they have time to discuss Pardee’s 29 questions submitted beforehand. Smith’s schedule was filled with FOIA issues, causing the cancelling of meetings, changing dates, and non-attendance of some financial committee members. Pardee suggests Smith publish the dates of intended finance committee meetings to develop the 2024-2025 budget so members can plan to attend or advise conflicts.

Pardee’s “same-old, same-old” would stop if Smith and Greg [Coté, city treasurer] would provide financial information confirming Pardee was wrong to suggest the 2024-2025 budget will have few funds for capital projects. Although it is starting, it feels like budgets past with unspent funds providing funds for the next budget with unspent funds of $22,000 from Depot Park [Road] repairs and $33,000 from unspent sidewalk repair funds. Pardee would expect the majority of unspent funds to be used in employee retention efforts.

Pardee is hoping that tonight’s council will approve finance committee members of character, capability, and courage. Character to support the correct priorities, capable of understanding and learning how the city budget works, and courage to communicate the correct decisions and be willing to speak out in support of them.

The first paragraph mentions 100-word max required. This total is 353 words.

Wylie said that’s from Chet Pardee. It’s the only one she received by e-mail.

Agenda Item #6, FYI (Video time mark 0:04:01):

Item 6a – CIDL [Clarkston Independence District Library] Winter Book Sale (Video time mark 0:04:06)

• • Flyer, Friends of CIDL Winter Book Sale, January 17th-20th (page 3/31 of the council packet)

Wylie said OK, so they are on Item #6, which is FYI, and there’s a document in their package. This is regarding the Friends of the Clarkston and Independence District Library’s winter book sale, January 17^th through 20^th. Members only preview night is Wednesday, January 17^th from 3:00 p.m. to 7:30 p.m. Book sale is Thursday, January 18^th, 10:00 a.m. to 8:30 p.m. Friday, January 19^th, 10:00 a.m. to 5:30 p.m. Five Dollar Bag Day is Saturday, January 20^th, 10:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m.

Wylie asked if anyone else had any FYIs.

Wylie recognized DeLorge for a comment. DeLorge said they included that in the packet because the packet went out Thursday so the residents could see the sale. It ended on Saturday. Wylie said DeLorge was absolutely right. DeLorge said they just wanted the residents to know about it because the packet goes out on Thursday. Wylie said she just reads and doesn’t think anything about what she’s reading. Wylie thanked DeLorge.

Agenda Item #7, Sheriff Report for December 2023 (Video time mark 0:05:02):

• • Lieutenant Richard Cummins, City of the Village of Clarkston Monthly Report, December 2023 (page 4/31 of the council packet)

Wylie said OK, next they have Item #7, which is the sheriff’s report. Wylie said she didn’t see Sergeant Ashley there; maybe she’s missing him. Casey said she’s not.

Wylie said they do have a report attached in their packet, but everybody maybe already looked at it. If everybody wants to take a look and maybe there are questions or comments that they can pass on to Sergeant Ashley.

Quisenberry said it’s not on the report, but he did have a question. He wanted to be clear in his mind and Smith can help him on this. So, obviously they have the Sheriff’s Department patrol and contract for our city, and Smith even mentioned something about it earlier today that got Quisenberry thinking again. Quisenberry asked if we are paying for police services to Independence Township for kind of subcontracting, what they contracted the Sheriff for, or do we have a separate contract with the Sheriff’s office? Smith said we have a separate contract with the Sheriff’s office directly. Quisenberry said oh, we do. Wylie said she was incorrect. Smith said now, the fire department, we do contract through Independence Township. Quisenberry said yes, he knew that.

Quisenberry said so, the amount that we pay for police services here through the Sheriff’s office is set, it’s a standard rate that the Sheriff’s office charges every one of their contracted communities. Smith said he wasn’t sure how they determine the dollar value of the fees, but they do go up periodically – Quisenberry said oh yeah – (continuing), Smith said based on, you know, contracts that they have with their officers. Quisenberry said yes, but by virtue of, our contract has to be pretty small compared to, say, Independence or Commerce or Rochester. Smith said yes, absolutely. Quisenberry said but he thinks, he just wanted to confirm, that our rate is the same per deputy for the number that we have. City attorney Tom Ryan said he’s sure it is. It’s a standard. Quisenberry said yes. Smith said it’s proportional. Ryan said county-wide. Quisenberry said OK. Ryan said so much for a sergeant, you know. Quisenberry said and school officer and any other special events that you have are probably added on to it then so. Smith said those are additive, and they do, there is the option of having additional officers if, for example, you wanted them to patrol Main Street or something – Quisenberry agreed – (continuing), Smith said they’re speeding, they will do that on a separate contractual basis. That’s above and beyond the contract. Quisenberry said yes. Smith said they have done that periodically. Quisenberry said OK.

Wylie asked if anybody else had comments about the Sheriff’s Department report?

No comments.

Agenda Item #8, City Manager Report (Video time mark 0:07:49):

• • City Manager Report, January 22, 2024 (page 5/31 of the council packet)

Wylie said OK, moving on to Item #8, which is the city manager’s report for January 22, 2024. Wylie asked Smith if he wanted to make any comments. She thinks it’s pretty clear what it says.

Smith said right. He just talked in there about our swan rescue. That was a big success. Wylie said that’s right. They got a video. Smith said actually, he didn’t have it queued up here. Wylie said oh, OK. Smith said he can try and get that queued up during the meeting here.

Smith said the Depot Park [Road] paving program came in significantly under budget. Smith is very happy with that. The deal was struck with the Oakland County Road Commission to pave Depot Road. Smith said it came in about $23,000 under the budget, so that was a good success.

Smith said they have a Zoning Board of Appeals meeting on Wednesday and then he will be absent at the next city council meeting.

Wylie asked if there were any council questions or comments for Smith.

No comments.

Wylie asked if anybody in the audience had questions or comments about the manager’s report?

No comments.

Agenda Item #9 – Motion: Acceptance of the Consent Agenda as Presented (Video time mark 0:09:03):

• • 12-11-2023 Final Minutes (page 6/31 of the council packet)
  • 01-08-2024 Draft Minutes (page 9/31 of the council packet)
  • 01-22-2024 Treasurer’s Report (page 11/31 of the council packet)
  • 01-09-2024 Revenue and Expenditure Report for the Period Ending 12-31-2023 (page 12/31 of the council packet)
  • December 2023 Carlisle/Wortman Invoice for Code Enforcement Services (page 21/31 of the council packet)

Wylie said OK, moving on to Item #9. They’ve got a motion for acceptance of consent agenda as presented January 22, 2024. This includes the final minutes from December 11^th and 23^rd, the draft minutes on January 8, 2024, treasurer’s report for today, January 22^nd, and the documents are included.

Wylie said so, she needs a motion and a second.

Motion by Quisenberry; second Roth.

Wylie asked if there was any discussion.

No discussion.

The motion to accept the consent agenda as presented passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said so, the motion passes.

Agenda Item #10, Old Business (Video time mark 0:09:50):

Wylie said they are on Item #10. Old business. There’s no old business.

Agenda Item #11, New Business (Video time mark 0:09:54):

Wylie said Item #11. They have several things for new business.

Item 11a – Motion – Clarkston Area Optimist Sign Request for Depot Park (Video time mark 0:09:59):

• • Motion – Optimist Request for New Signage (page 23/31 of the council packet)
  • Optimist Creed Sign (page 24/31 of the council packet)

Wylie said the first is a motion. Clarkston Area Optimist Sign Request for Depot Park, and she sees a couple Optimists are in attendance, so if they want to talk about it.

Debra Berry said hi, good evening, how are you? Forte said good, how are you? Berry said she didn’t think she’d seen Forte before.

Berry said she wanted to thank them, first of all, for entertaining them today.

Wylie asked Berry if she wouldn’t mind introducing herself. Berry said she could, definitely. Wylie thanked Berry.

Berry said her name is Debra Berry. She’s the current president, president #38 of Clarkston Area optimist club. Obviously, they are 38 years old. They have never had a repeat president. So that’s an exciting thing right there, and everything they do is about optimism.

Berry said she put some things on their table which included their club brochure. Do take a minute, in the middle section, they’ll see they have a website. They can see what they do for fun and for work in this area.

Berry said she wanted to also introduce Ken Ermer. He’s a member of their Optimist Club. Ermer said he’s also on the Friends of Depot Park. He’s sure he’s met everybody before.

Berry said she thinks well, the important thing, Ermer, is they’re all connected here in this community. Their mission statement for the Optimist organization is by providing hope and a positive vision, Optimists bring out the best in youth, their communities and themselves.

Berry said so, the youth part of it is the club work. They have many, many scholarships every single year that they give out to their area students to the tune of almost $50,000 a year. They also provide workshops and educational opportunities in the school. They invite lots of different groups in the schools to come and visit their Optimist club meetings.

Berry said they meet every single Wednesday morning at 7:30 a.m. over here at Clarkston United [Methodist] Church. Berry said she would encourage any of you, any of you here that are interested in what they do, stop in. They have coffee and doughnuts and a lot of great conversation before the meeting starts.

Berry said so, that’s the you, the community. Some of that is out there in that Depot Park. Berry asked Ermer how much equipment have the Optimists given in terms of playground. Ermer said well, obviously over the years, they’ll remember they started about ten years ago, and they tore out the whole old playground and put in all that playground equipment. The Optimist in total donated $58,000 for that equipment and the bridge going over the rain garden, so that $58,000 came from the Optimists. There were other opportunities for donations from other people too that, you know, contributed to that part. And of course, a lot of labor, most of the labor was donated labor to put that equipment in. They had a company that donated, that powder coated that train engine and car. And so, you know, over the ten years Friends of Depot Park, along with the Optimists, have contributed a lot to that to that playground. Berry thanked Ermer.

Berry said and plus, they have a new ice rink. They finally have ice. They were laughing at their last meeting. Are they going to have a swimming pool or are they going to have an ice rink. Roth said there’s ice.

Berry said they’re very grateful that they’re going to have ice because they do have an event coming up in two Saturdays. It’s their Winter Fest and it’s open to the community for families to come and have s’mores, play games, obviously go ice skating. They have lots of abilities for even kids that have disabilities to get out there and ice skate. So, thank you for telling everybody about that. So, they can come out and have fun.

Berry said the reason for their visit tonight has to do with this sign. And this is a super important part of what they do, what they believe in. The Optimist Creed is ten tenets long. Berry said she would let Ermer do that. (Ermer walked to the center of the room with a sign.)

Berry said OK, every single tenet is on the back of the brochure if they want to look at it. Every single tenet means something to all of them. Some of them learned this before they became Optimists. There are Optimists, and Optimist clubs, worldwide. They have read this and joined an Optimist club because it is so strong, and it meant so much to them at the time that they read it. As they grow in optimism through their club, they start to really think about what do these ten tenets mean to us.

Berry said she would say probably the first one that jumped out at her was give so much time to the improvement of yourself that you have no time to criticize others. This is something they’ve learned to do as Optimists, and that is part of this sign, and their idea for the council to consider tonight is that they would like to have this in a place where other people that are in the park, enjoying the park and all that the park has to offer, they can also be inspired by this information. Whether or not they join the club, they don’t get into that conversation. But this is a very powerful, impactful piece of literature. It was written in 1912 by a gentleman named Christian Larson, and reflecting back and thinking, how did that man know back then that this would be powerful for another 110 years till now. So, they’re pretty proud of this Optimist Creed. Berry said so, what they do is they tell new members to put this on their bathroom mirror. So, she encourages them to do that. She has been in the line at the grocery store when everybody else is buying groceries because we might get some snow thinking promise yourself to be so strong that nothing will disturb your peace of mind. She has read in her head the entire Optimist Creed because it empowers her. It gives her good things to think about, which she already does anyway, right? Roth agreed.

Berry said so, come and see what they’re about. You know, they’re all about taking care of kids, providing support for kids, providing support for their community, and also providing support for each other.

Berry thanked the council for their time. Wylie thanked Berry.

Wylie said she, their own city council rules, she usually likes to start with reading the motion first, but she’d like to hear what you guys were saying. Berry said she understands. Wylie said so, they’ll go over the motion and then maybe if anybody wants to make a motion and second it, then they can have any discussion from council.

Wylie said so, this is the motion, Optimist Request for New Signage in Depot Park. (Reading from the motion), Wylie said Clarkston Area Optimist Club is requesting approval to install a new sign stating the Optimist Creed – (holding up the photo), Wylie said with the picture attached here and they all saw it. (Continuing to read from the motion), Wylie said in the city’s Depot Park near the Optimist Playground. The current President of the Clarkston Area Optimist Club, Debra Berry, will be present to discuss the request.

Wylie said so, in order to go further with that, they need a motion.

Motion by Roth; second Quisenberry.

Wylie asked if there was any discussion from the members of council.

Casey asked how big the sign is. (Pointing to the sign in the meeting room), Casey asked if that’s it. Wylie said she thinks that’s it.

Roth asked if they had something in mind, where are they going to put it? Berry said she believes they want it by the playground. Ermer said somewhere near the playground, like they talked, there’s that, that information, that pole that has some information that came along with the playground equipment that has some safety instructions to it. It’s been out there for some time in that area there, although they have to think about, like they talked about the kids getting to it – Roth agreed – (continuing), Ermer said and stealing.

Roth asked how the sign would be mounted. Ermer said well, they’re going to have to determine that with the village. Roth agreed. Ermer said the DPW [Department of Public Works]. He doesn’t have, you know, they will have a much better idea of how they’re going to mount that. Roth said she just went out and looked around trying to figure out where, because like, the village is like, we have so much signage everywhere, but she thinks that’s such a good, positive message for people to be able to read. Roth said she wondered why it wasn’t yellow. (Ermer laughed.) Berry said that is taken from the Optimists International website. Roth said the blue. She guesses she was thinking it being the yellow. (Unintelligible crosstalk.) Ermer said the picture he sent to them is yellow. Roth agreed and said but that’s why she just wondered how they would mount it because there is a lot of vandalism. Ermer said so actually, they would work with Jimi [Turner, DPW supervisor] and Smith and come up with an ideal place where it goes to try to eliminate vandalism. Roth agreed. Ermer said again, that’s if the council approves putting it in. Roth agreed.

Quisenberry said the motion says to install a new sign and asked if there is an existing one. Casey said no. Roth said no, that’s the new one right there. Berry said that’s the new one. (Unintelligible crosstalk.) Quisenberry said he just wondered if there was one out there that’s going to be replaced by this. Ermer said there’s a little sign out there that they put up a long time ago when the playground equipment was put in thanking the Clarkston Optimists and other individuals that donated. Quisenberry said he thought he saw one. Ermer said it’s a small sign that’s above the one like he just said that has some safety instructions for the equipment that came from the playground manufacturer that’s out there. Quisenberry agreed and said just as a thought – (interrupting Quisenberry), Ermer said though he doesn’t foresee, first of all, he doesn’t foresee replacing the safety instructions for the equipment, and he guesses they could take the little sign down if that’s what they would want. Quisenberry said he was just wondering.

Quisenberry said the other thing – (interrupting Quisenberry), Ermer said to go further, there’s two big round signs on top of the green structure. The Optimist signs. There were three of them out there. The kids figured out how to get one off. Quisenberry agreed. Ermer said so, it’s disappeared. So, there’s two of them up there on the road. But of course, this would have to go someplace where people can read it.

Quisenberry said and that’s what he was thinking, and probably more so to combat or at least mitigate the vandalism portion of it is if it were put somewhere near where the flagpole is and where that garden is. That’s right near the crosswalk, the sidewalk. You see it right at Depot Road, and it’s close enough, as close as you can get so that it isn’t going to be secluded and therefore more subject to vandalism. A thought. Forte agreed. Ermer said he guessed what their thought was, of course what your thoughts were, and find out what the DPW guys think. There are maintenance guys out there all the time. So, they were just hoping for that information. They really didn’t have an established location.

Roth said she was looking at the playground equipment itself without the frame around it to attach it to the equipment because it’s got to be sort of eye level, she guesses is what she’s thinking. Ermer said you could take the frame off.

Quisenberry said he’s just thinking that if it’s toward the, in the middle of it, or in the back of it, and if they’re going to place an over, days before it gets vandalized, he would take the under. Quisenberry said he would take the under, meaning he thinks that the further you get away from anything viewable in this area and Depot Road, the more likely – Roth said she sees what Quisenberry is saying – (continuing), Quisenberry said because that’s where the kids hang out at in the evening, not so much the younger ones, but the older ones. They’re there, and they’re the ones that, sadly, are the ones that are more inclined to be engaged in that. Ermer agreed.

Roth said at the entrance of the park would be nice. Ermer said they would gladly listen to that. Quisenberry said by the flagpole. Roth agreed. Ermer said they have more experience of where they think it should go than he has or that anybody in the Optimists would have.

Wylie said if they, eventually, after their discussion, if anybody wants to amend this motion, for instance, to make it amend the location, she thinks they can do that too. Wylie asked Ryan if they can do that, amend the motion to include a location. Ryan agreed.

Wylie asked Casey if he had anything, any comments about this. Casey said he gets, he understands the Optimists, an old and well-respected organization, and they put a lot of money into the park, but he’s just concerned that there are a lot of people that have put energy into the park and money. And Casey thinks that this is something that’s not necessary, given that there are already signs that the Optimists put in the playground as well as the signage on top of whatever it is so, he doesn’t know. The sentiments are great. He’s not arguing with what the sign says. He thinks it’s too much. Forte agreed and said and it’s very prominent and she doesn’t really want it on the entrance of our park.

Casey said the park, it needs to be, it needs to have a rural feel to it, and he thinks the more signs you put in there, the less, he means, there are a lot of people are going to like it, but there are a lot of people that just come down here to be away from the hustle and bustle. And this is, he doesn’t think it’s a good idea. He understands they are very passionate about it, and he’s not trying to minimize the good work that the Optimists do and have done and will do in the future, but he’s just not sold on this idea.

Forte said it’s a big sign, too. It would be one of the larger ones in the park scale-wise. So, and she does think it’s important to realize that it’s like the Optimist Creed, which is an organization. So, putting that in a public park is like, these are, they’re lucky, this is a great organization like, these are great messages. Casey agreed. Forte said so, like, that doesn’t take away, but just for it to be the most prominent, one of the most prominent signs in the park just, she doesn’t know, seems like a lot. Wylie said OK.

Berry asked to be recognized for a comment. Wylie said OK, let them have some discussion.

Ryan said he just wanted to say to council, he did send Smith an e-mail about this and there’s nothing, the Optimists are a great organization. There’s no question. Ryan thinks, he sees only five people tonight. They’re going to need four votes to pass this, and he thinks that rather than doing this on an ad hoc basis, he thinks that there’s recognition, which they, you know, have already, but maybe it’s not the level of recognition they want or whatever. He doesn’t know what that looks like, but it seems like when the next group comes along, you know, AA [Alcoholics Anonymous] or whomever and they’re going to want, you know, what are going to be, they should set up some guidelines. Right now, as he understands it, if people want to make a memorial donation, like for a tree or something, you know, well, there’s a small plaque and whatnot, but if you want to enhance that some by saying if something like this is going to, is asked for, and again this is a public park and the Optimists are a wonderful organization, but we can’t just seem like we’re adopting a particular viewpoint. He means, that has to be kind of sorted out, if they know what he means, respectfully. So, he thinks that would be a good subcommittee.

Wylie said right now, they have two people who are opposed to it. That means that the most they have are two or three people who will vote for it, and it can’t pass tonight. Ryan said and in fairness, so they’re missing two. Wylie said right. Ryan said, so, and this is an important issue so that, you know, he thinks maybe a subcommittee would be best to work with Ryan or Smith to try to set up some good criteria or standards for this type of thing to happen.

Roth said she thinks that’s a great idea because she’d also like to point out that the Rotary brought in the totem pole that there was quite a bit of discussion on. Wylie agreed. Roth said she believes that was approved. She doesn’t know whatever happened to what, you know, where they put it, but she does remember she said the same thing. If you do one for the Rotary, then do you do one for everyone. So, she thinks a committee would be a good idea to have some kind of criteria for what’s put up and what isn’t put up, and she agrees they have a lot of a lot of signs in this community all over.

Wylie asked Quisenberry if he had a comment. Quisenberry said he did, and he hadn’t thought of this until Casey brought it up, and he was very eloquent in how he explained it, and it is right, to what extent are we going to then be beholden to any other group or are we going to put a dollar amount on it? So, he thinks that’s the component that needs to go into this decision and because of that, he thinks he’d like to withdraw his motion for supporting it.

Wylie asked Ryan if Quisenberry could do that. Ryan said they can move to table it at this time for further study. (Unintelligible crosstalk.)

Wylie said before they move on, she knows that Ermer had his hand up. Ermer said (unintelligible) there’s two of those and one is out on Independence Township Park off of Sashabaw. He gave it to a gentleman named Jeremy and he guesses they’re working on if they’re going to put it up or not. He doesn’t know if it’s up. He gave it to them and that’s all he’s got. Just to let them know there’s a possibility of another one in Independence Park, in that park off of Sashabaw.

Wylie asked if anyone else who is attending the meeting who would like to make a comment.

No comments.

Wylie said so, if they table it, they can continue it. Is that correct? She never remembers. Ryan said they just have to table for further study, yes.

Wylie asked Quisenberry if he would like to make a motion on that. Quisenberry agreed. Wylie said so, Quisenberry is making a motion to table this motion for further study. So, they’re tabling the motion for the Optimists request for new signage in Depot Park. Second Forte.

Wylie said they need to vote on that.

Motion to table the motion for the Clarkston Area Optimist Sign Request for Depot Park passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said OK, they voted to table that for future study.

Wylie said before they move on, is there anybody who’s interested in being involved in a group, a committee to study this?

Forte asked didn’t they used to have a signage committee. Wylie said she wasn’t aware of any and asked if anyone else was aware. Roth said she wasn’t aware of any. Wylie said she doesn’t remember one. Forte thanked Wylie and said no big deal.

Wylie asked if anybody was interested in being on a – (to Forte), Wylie said she mentioned something besides signs, and she doesn’t remember what else. Forte said way finder. Wylie said maybe that’s what Forte was thinking of. There was a committee that was working on signs for the city. Wylie said what she thinks they’re talking about now is just about signs in Depot Park. Forte agreed. They might want to be on a committee to consider what they put in Depot Park.

(To Smith), Ryan said if Independence Township is looking at this issue also, maybe they can find out what they’re looking at, you know, in their park.

Quisenberry asked if the Friends of Depot Park – Forte said yeah, that’s what she was thinking. Roth and Wylie agreed. Wylie said since Ermer is, she believes the chairman of the Friends of Depot Park, would he like to come up with a, would he consider being a member of a committee, or have his committee look at the rules involving signage in Depot Park. Ermer asked if Wylie meant on her committee. Wylie said no, Ermer, beyond having the Friends of Depot Park, actually be the committee that investigates or looks into and makes a recommendation to city council about how they handle signs in Depot Park.

Wylie pointed to the back of the room and said she would get to Cara [Catallo] in a minute.

Ermer said OK, sure. They’ll drag Tom Lowry into it. Wylie said it could be anybody on the Friends of Depot Park. Yeah, you have to get them back from somewhere else.

Wylie recognized Cara Catallo for a comment.

Catallo said yeah, she feels like this should probably be more in the hands of like the planning commission instead of, she means, the Friends of Depot Park, but it seems like maybe it would be better placed in a group that is, lifts like a little bit heavier weight, and is like again nothing against, and obviously Ermer is going to feel strongly. Ermer agreed. Catallo said and also doesn’t live in the village. But that’s just her $0.02.

Wylie said she agrees with Catallo. Not because Ermer is not in the village, but she thinks that the planning commission, she thinks this is something they can assign, a task assigned to the planning commission. Wylie asked Ryan if they could do anything else other than assign it to them? Can she say that? Ryan said sure.

Wylie said OK, they’re going to assign it to the planning commission. Wylie asked if anybody else had any comments about assigning it to the planning commission. Ermer said even he would agree to that because remember, the Friends of Depot Park is a committee of the planning commission. Wylie said a committee of the planning commission, right. Ermer said it’s just the committee to recommend things to the council as a representative of the village. You know, the beautification of the park and of course the playground was almost a given when they started to work on it. Wylie said well, and since the Friends of Depot Park is heavily represented, there’s a lot of Optimist members in the Friends of Depot Park. Ermer agreed. Wylie said so, this removes it a little bit from Optimists.

Wylie asked if there was anything else on this issue.

Forte said no.

Wylie said OK, so, they’ll move on.

Ryan asked if they voted. Did they vote on the motion. Wylie said yes. Ryan said OK. Wylie said they did, didn’t they. Yes. They did. They voted to table the motion. Yes, they did. Ryan said OK. He just wanted to make sure. Wylie said thank you. She needs everybody to keep track of what she’s doing.

Item 11b – Motion: PC [Planning Commission] Recommendation Regarding Depot Park Pavilions (Video time mark 0:32:47):

• • Motion – Planning Commission Recommendation (page 22/31 of the council packet)

Wylie said OK, 11b, they have a motion on a planning commission recommendation regarding Depot Park pavilions.

Wylie said she would start by reading this motion.

(Wylie read the motion.)

So, before they get into any kind of discussion, she would like to have a motion on this, and let her make sure exactly what they’re having a motion on. It’s because the planning commission wants them to hold a public hearing in an upcoming council meeting for the purposes of gauging resident interest in a new picnic pavilion in Depot Park.

Wylie asked if anyone would like to make a motion for that.

Motion by Forte; second Roth.

Wylie said OK, now the council can discuss.

Casey asked how big it was.

Forte said OK, let her just preface all this. So, the background of this is under the last mayor, this was really pushed, and they thought after there’s been some changes and stuff, they should come to council and see if there’s actually like an interest in these amenities in the park and then have public engagement to see if they actually want that before they keep proceeding with a, like going down and getting a rec [recreation] plan or having our city planner do public engagement.

Wylie said so, it really, for many of us, this is not just about a pavilion. Forte agreed. Wylie said it’s about everything, many things in Depot Park, but since it does involve the pavilion, Wylie asked Ermer if he would, as part of their discussion, would he like to talk about that pavilion at all. Ermer said would he, right now? Wylie said yes, just see what the overall plans are. Berry asked Wylie if she has a picture. Wylie said she has the picture on her phone.

Ermer said here’s what happened. The Optimists came out, came to the Friends of Depot Park, and said they want to give us $25,000 in 2023, they wanted to give us $20,000 in 2024, and $20,000 in 2025. But they did include a letter, and the letter said that they want to see a picnic pavilion and any other things that they present to the council for approval would be youth orientated and community orientated. (Wylie passed around an electronic tablet to councilmembers and asked if anyone wanted to see it.)

Ermer said so, right now, the deal is a picnic pavilion, and he didn’t want to, he can’t, he didn’t want to come to them and ask for a picnic pavilion because they don’t know what the people in the village want. (Wylie passed the tablet around to the other side of the council table. Forte returned the tablet and said thank you.)

(Continuing), Ermer said and so, therefore, he’s made the statement to the Optimist Club that the picnic pavilion is on indefinite hold until he finds out what the people in the village would like to see, because as Casey mentioned, there are some people that don’t want any more structures in the park. Ermer understands that. So again, the decision is back to them if they want to put a picnic pavilion up or not. So, the theory was a small one next to the, right next to the playground on the other side of the sidewalk. The $25,000 would put in a small one, and he shared a picture with Wylie. Wylie said she just passed it around to everybody.

Ermer said it’s a small one. It holds two picnic tables. If you want to get bigger than that, of course, it’s more money. And then if, you know, we could say, well, we really have $45,000 in 2024. Ermer has got to go to an Optimist meeting on January 30th and tell them where we are at. As far as he knows, where he’s at is it’s on definite hold until they get input from the people. Until that happens and he hears, gets the idea that they’d like to see a picnic pavilion, then he can come to them and say they’d like to put in a picnic pavilion and here’s what they want to put in, and then they get to decide yes or no.

Roth said she thinks where it got confusing is it all seemed to get – (Wylie looked at an audience member who’d raised his hand and said let council talk first) – (continuing), Roth said it all seemed to get lumped together at one point, you know, it was like phase one, phase two, phase three, and so we all are talking about the whole thing – Ermer agreed – (continuing), Roth said and what the Optimists are offering is this is the first section. If you don’t want this, this item, they want the $20,000 back because they’re not – (interrupting Roth), Ermer said he doesn’t know that. Roth said she does know that. Ermer said he can’t make that decision. Roth said she’s just saying, right, that’s up to the board.

Ermer said just to continue the history. Yes, Eric Haven. They had the opportunity for a lot more money, OK. And that’s why they went with the big five-year plan. They had a big five-year plan because there was an opportunity for more money and that didn’t happen. Haven resigned and that money disappeared and now they’ve got, that’s where they’re at.

Roth said but the money, the first, this initial amount of money that – Ermer said the $25,000 – (continuing), Roth said the beneficiary of the foundation is saying, you can only have this amount of money if you do this. Ermer agreed. Do you want to pick the pavilion first? Roth agreed. Ermer said right. Ermer said he shouldn’t say he wants, the Optimists want. Ermer has to respond to the letter that the Optimists gave the Friends of Depot Park. Roth said she understands. Ermer said whether it came, you know, and he’s going to stand here and say, he doesn’t know who, where they got the money. Roth said right. Ermer said it’s none of his business. Roth said right. Ermer said he doesn’t want to know, he doesn’t know where it came from. Roth said she understands.

Wylie said Quisenberry had a question, and can she just say one thing. She knows some people in the audience are trying to speak. They’d like to have the discussion up here first, and since Ken’s involved, they’re talking to him and then they’ll open up to other questions.

Quisenberry said his understanding and recollection was that there was a series of improvements or additions that were possible, or options with, to spend on, with this money that was being donated by the Optimists. The pavilion was only one of them. Ermer agreed. (Continuing), Quesenberry said and one of the things that he asked when he was not up here but out there is one of the options that are not listed on here that you could spend it on is improvements, because he thinks there’s some improvements in the playing area, on the playground area, that need to be done and he said can they use it. Let’s add that as another consideration as to what to use. He even came to a planning board meeting, that they were meeting with the Friends of Depot Park and expressed that he would like to have this be added as another option to consider to spend this money on that. This motion restricts them to only the pavilion, and that’s not what he thought was supposed to come back.

Quisenberry said he thinks that the whole idea of the public hearing, as a matter of fact, he thinks he asked Smith that when he was up here and Smith explained the process, the Friends of Depot Park meet with the planning commission, do all this sort of stuff, and then come back and after all that preliminary stuff was done, it would then come to us. But part of the decision, once it comes to us, gives us an option to see what we want to spend it on, and that was, the process was also going to include some form of public input to allow them. Quisenberry just thinks that this is too restrictive right now to be able to pass without the council having the ability to allow the people at the public comment or public hearing to voice approval to spend it on something else.

Ermer said and that’s why, as the Friends of Depot Park, they have not come to the council to ask for that provision because they wanted to have the people behind it, if they wanted it or not. If the people don’t want it, Ermer is not going to get a yes from you guys. It’s not going to happen. Now he’s back to the Optimists saying, OK, here we are. There’s no picnic pavilion. He has their $25,000 grant. What do you want to do? And if they say well, can you put in some maybe playground equipment for disability kids, now he’s back to the playground. He’s limited, he’s land-locked in that playground. He has to take something out. Quisenberry said the same way that they’re locked into this right now.

Ermer said well, the pavilion can go on the other side of the sidewalk. Equipment just for kids with disabilities would be the next step to deal in the in that playground, and they really should put it in the playground along with all the other equipment, which means again, he would be back to them and say, can he take this piece out and put this in.

Wylie said there’s no guarantee that the Optimists would – Ermer said he would have to get that approval from the Optimists first. Would they let him take the $25,000 that he has, to use it for that. Roth said he’s in a Catch 22. (Unintelligible crosstalk.)

Wylie said Forte has been waiting and recognized Forte for a comment.

Forte said to go off of Wylie’s point, maybe they can change the motion. Instead of new picnic pavilion, to gauging residents’ interest in a – Quisenberry said Depot Park improvements. Forte said yeah, something more general. So, it opens them up to just a more open conversation. Quisenberry agreed.

Wylie said they can actually do both because right now this picnic pavilion, the city has the money is her understanding. So, this is what they’re faced with right now. They have to make a decision on that. So, but maybe they also want to talk about other potential improvements to Depot Park.

Ermer said yeah, but he’s not asking them for – Wylie said she understands he’s not – Ermer said he’s not asking them for that picnic pavilion, because if he came to them asked for it now, they’re without knowing what the public wants.

Wylie said their motion is actually just about holding a public hearing. Ermer agreed. Wylie said that’s all. Ermer said correct, that’s all it is. Wylie said it’s not about Ermer asking to put it in even though they have the money. Ermer said that was all the background to how that all that evolved.

Wylie said OK and asked Ermer if he could tell them also one more thing about what does that $25,000 cover. Ermer said for $25,000, he could get one small picnic pavilion, including the cement and everything. They have a couple of people in the Optimists. One is a construction guy. Ermer has the instructions on how to put that kit together and he showed that kit to him and he said they, as volunteers, they could put that kit up. They could do that. If the pavilion gets bigger, then they’re going to have to have specialized equipment to raise the roof and raise the beams and everything, but the small one they could put up by hand. Wylie said and it would include a pad. Ermer said it would include a cement pad. Wylie said that’s what she thought. Ermer said because again, he could probably get it for $18,000-$19,000. Get the kit. He would submit $3,000, $4,000. $5,000 or $6,000. Wylie said today. Ermer said today. Wylie said OK.

Wylie said and this is a two-table pavilion, is that correct. Ermer said that one is, the one that he showed her, yes. Wylie said and that would be the one that for $25,000 roughly, you think you could put up that pavilion and the cement – Ermer said the cement – Wylie said pretty close to the cement. Ermer agreed.

Ermer asked Smith if he thought $4,000 or $5,000. Smith agreed.

Wylie recognized Michael [Moon, Historic District Commission]. Moon said just a reminder, they’ve always, the Historic District Commission [HDC] has always had a good relationship working with Friends of Depot Park, but just a reminder that HDC would have to review any plans for a structure like that. Ermer said OK, sure. Wylie said thank you for that reminder. Ermer said no problem.

Forte asked how big are the picnic tables that are underneath this. Ermer said eight feet. Two eight-foot picnic tables. Two feet on each side is what he estimated, which would be twelve by sixteen pavilion.

Wylie asked if anybody else on council had any comments or questions.

Ermer said right now, again, like he said, January 30th, he’s going back to the Optimists board meeting and tell them where we stand. Because that’s all he knows right now. Quisenberry agreed. Ermer said and he’s going to tell them that they’re going to have this, well, wait. He has to wait for this to be approved. Berry said they are going to take that information, whether it’s approved, and bring it to their board meeting. Quisenberry agreed.

Ermer asked if there were any other questions for him.

Berry said they’re going to take that information, if it’s approved, to their board meeting.

Wylie asked Ermer to stick around.

Quisenberry said Forte made the motion, didn’t she. Does she want to amend the motion to just take the, remove type, size, and design of the pavilion to be constructed and insert to gather input on Depot Park improvements? Forte said yeah, sounds good.

Wylie said will the public hearing, so where are they changing it here. Quisenberry said just removing Depot Park. Wylie said this is kind of an extra. Quisenberry said removing type, size, and design. Cross that out and just after – Wylie said that’s actually not part of the motion. (Unintelligible crosstalk in the audience.) Wylie said they’ve changed this, just in resident interest in improvements to Depot Park.

Quisenberry said here’s the motion. It’s got picnic pavilion in the motion. The very last line. Wylie said they have to change that. Forte said in public amenities instead or something. Wylie said they should tell her what they want it to say.

Quisenberry said generate interest, generate interest in Depot Park improvements. Forte agreed.

Forte asked if she needed to make a new motion.

(To DeLorge), Wylie said what it says is – Wylie asked if Forte was agreeing with that also, and Forte agreed.

Wylie asked if they had to vote on changing the reading. Ryan said no, as long as the support accepts it.

(To DeLorge), Wylie said it says motion and second to approve the holding of a public hearing in an upcoming city council meeting to gauge resident interest and generate interest in, oh – Quisenberry said resident interest in Depot Park improvements. Wylie said oh, in Depot Park improvements, OK.

Quisenberry told Roth she has to approve that. Roth agreed.

Casey said and the last line the same. Wylie agreed. Casey said in two places. Wylie said yes, in both the second paragraph and in the final one, yes. Casey agreed.

Wylie asked if anybody else on council [had a comment].

Ryan said he was sorry, since, he means, do they really want to exclude the pavilion since it’s kind of been discussed. What do you want to say. Depot Park improvements, including, possibly including a pavilion, or he means, they don’t want to put that, they just want to open it up. Quisenberry said he thinks whatever the public has to say, whatever they, because somebody in the public might come and give them an idea that they don’t even know about. Ryan said no, he gets that. But do they want to just dump the pav[ilion] – Wylie said she thinks they should talk about it and bring it to their attention because they do have $25,000 that has been offered to do that work. So, she thinks they should make sure that they specifically know about that.

Quisenberry said well, doing this includes that.

Roth said he’s saying under the umbrella. (Unintelligible crosstalk.)

Casey said he thinks it’s a good idea to include a reference to the pavilion.

(Pointing to Forte and Roth), Wylie said you two need to agree to it because it’s your motion.

Roth said they could just do improvement/pavilion and that way, it’s included. Quisenberry said or improvements to include. Ryan said which may include a pavilion. Casey said which may include a pavilion.

Casey asked how big it is. Ryan said twelve by sixteen, he thinks it was. Casey said twelve by sixteen. (Unintelligible crosstalk.)

Ermer said if they wanted a four-picnic table, they’ve got to get bigger. Casey said right. He understands that. Two is (unintelligible).

Wylie asked DeLorge if she got the wording. Wylie said no. DeLorge said sorry. Wylie said the second paragraph, for purposes of gauging resident interest in Depot Park improvements, which may include a Depot Park pavilion. Ryan said which may include a picnic pavilion. Wylie said OK. Which may include a picnic pavilion. DeLorge said OK. (Continuing), Wylie said and that same change is made in the very last paragraph. So, after it says meeting to gauge resident, it’s the same change, interest in Depot Park improvements, which may include a picnic pavilion.

(Pointing to Quisenberry and Forte), Wylie said you two are both in agreement on that, Forte and Quisenberry. Quisenberry said Forte and Roth. Roth agreed.

Wylie asked if anybody else on council, discussing anything else?

No additional council comments.

Wylie asked if anyone in the audience had a comment.

Wylie recognized Cara Catallo for a comment.

Catallo said who’s going to respectfully like, recommend using the term addition instead of improvements because it might not be considered necessarily an improvement to the park, but an addition to the park. But it’s, you know, apples and oranges. Wylie said OK, thank you.

Wylie recognized an unidentified woman in the audience for a comment.

The unidentified woman said there are a lot of constructions and improvements and such that are on the agenda to be in Depot Park. They’re kind of focusing on the pavilion, whereas when the people come in to hear about what’s going on, they need to hear all of them. Wylie said she agrees 100%. Yes. That’s why they are, that’s why she thinks there’s been so much discussion. They’re, most of them, aware of a lot of those additions, changes, improvements, whatever you want to call them, and a lot of them have some, a lot of concerns about it. The unidentified woman said the reason that she says it is because they’re inserting the pavilion as – Wyle said only because it’s a more immediate concern. They have the money for it right now. The Optimist Club deserves an answer one way or the other, and they need to let them know what they want to do. Are they going to keep the money and do this? Are they going to give the money back and not do that? So, she thinks that’s why. The other items, there’s no money for them. They’re still more, she thinks, way back in the planning stage.

Wylie recognized Ermer for a comment.

Ermer said he just needs to know a timetable. Wylie said she knows they do. Ermer said when do they think, he means, he knows, it’s not, there’s no guarantees and warranties, but when do they think they’ll, sometime in February, sometime in March? Wylie said as she told Ermer the other day, she still thinks March. So, where it looks like this is, this is the planning commission actually would be, no actually it would be an upcoming council meeting. So, they have their next meeting, second meeting, or second Monday in February.

Smith said they can’t do it that soon because they have to advertise this in the paper for fifteen days, so he can’t hit that date, but they could do the second meeting. Ryan said because Smith won’t be here on the 12th anyway. Wylie said that’s true.

Wylie said so, they’re talking the 26th of February, which doesn’t get you March. Well, there’s still the whole month of March afterwards. It doesn’t get you the first of March answer. Ermer said but they’re going to have more, more than one? Wylie asked more than one what. Ermer said input from the community. Casey said no, just one. Wylie said they would just do one.

Smith said the thought was it would be one public hearing. Ermer said one public hearing. Smith said as part of a council meeting. They stop the council format. They do this public hearing which they’ve advertised. People are welcome to come up to the podium and speak their mind. After that, council will have to decide do they want to direct the planning commission to have a public input session, which is a second event, a much bigger event just focused on the type, size, and design of the pavilion or other amenities that they would like to propose. That’s a bigger event with more, kind of a detailed kind of focus. This is just to gauge public interest. Do we say planning commission, yes or no, do the public input session. If we want to have our city planner orchestrate that planning, our input session, that’s a bigger deal too. That’s money involved. But we can do it without them. We could do an event with Julie [Meredith, director] at the [Clarkston Independence District] library. She’s done those kinds of events in the past. So, they can talk about what type of public input session, but that would be a second event. That would likely be, again, you have to put it in the paper for fifteen days. That would probably be the tail end of March before that meeting’s held.

Ermer said well, the reason he’s asking, of course, he’s got to report back to the Optimists and give them an idea when things are going to happen, he means, and he knows no guarantees and warranties, he understands that, but they need to have them understand that, you know, it’s going to take this long to get this done. Meanwhile, the $25,000 is sitting in the checking account. Smith said he understands. He’s just trying to follow the process the council directs so the public hearing would be the first, the second meeting in February, and then a public input session if (unintelligible) maybe sometime in March. Ermer said OK.

Ryan asked if it has been in an interest-bearing account. Smith said no, it is not. Ryan said it should be a money market, interest-bearing account. Roth said it’s a lot of money to sit. Ryan said if they want their money back someday, or that $25,000 may turn into something else. Smith said he would talk to Greg [Coté, city treasurer] about that.

Wylie told Ermer it looks like late March to early April is probably the earliest he can, that’s a month longer than Wylie told him she thought they could do it. Ermer said OK, that’s fine, he understands.

Roth said she had a question for Smith. If it, when it goes to the planning commission, they can accept, they don’t have to go on and have another hearing, right? Smith asked Roth what she meant. Roth said OK, so when it goes to the planning commission, Smith said the planning commission may decide to have another public hearing at the library, is that, that is not, that’s not totally necessary. They can just accept whatever is proposed to them and say yes, let’s send it back to the council now. Smith said they can make a recommendation back to the council. Roth said the council, OK. Smith said they are not a decision-making body. Roth said right, but they don’t have to go forward with another hearing. They can say this looks good. Let’s send it on. Smith said he thinks if they hear there is such a positive input after the council meeting – Roth said right – (continuing), Smith said and they think they’ll just go right to recommendation, they could do that. Roth said OK.

Wylie said just as she thinks they could also vote at any point along that and say they’ve decided this is what they’re going to do and they’re – Ryan said there’s wiggle room in this by going to the planning commission or not. It can go back or not. Roth agreed. Ryan said he means depending on what happens here before them. Roth agreed.

Wylie said OK and asked if there was any other discussion on this topic.

No discussion.

Wylie said OK, let’s move on.

Quisenberry asked if they needed a vote. Wylie said they voted to table, or do they have to do something else. Wylie said they haven’t voted on this. That’s right. Sorry about that. OK, so thank you.

Wylie said they have a motion by Forte, seconded by Roth. She’s sorry. She’s been saying Quisenberry. OK. And Roth approves these changes. Roth agreed. Wylie said OK. Sorry about that. To approve the holding of a public hearing at an upcoming city council meeting to gauge resident interest in Depot Park improvements, which may include a pavilion picnic.

Wylie asked to do a roll call. Is that OK.

Casey, Forte, Quisenberry, Roth, and Wylie voted yes.

Delorge said Lamphier and Rodgers are absent.

Wylie said OK, so then that motion is adopted.

Item 11c – Discussion: Drinking Water Filters from IPW (International Pure Water) (Video time mark 0:58:15 and 1:15:15):

Wylie said OK, moving on to Item #11c, Discussion, Drinking Water Filters from IPW, which is International Pure Water. Wylie doesn’t think they have anything in their packet about it. Wylie said it looks like Smith is looking for somebody from IPW.

Smith said he is indeed, and they’re not online, and they’re not here. So, just the two second overview. IPW is something that, it is a firm that’s selling these filter systems that clear, and you see on the counter there, is their filter system. Their proposal is to provide these to all of the residents in Clarkson if the council approves, and this is because they feel that there are impurities in our drinking water, even though we are on a community well. Our spigot, for example, one to ten is an acceptable level arsenic and our “city water” is on nine. So, it’s kind of high.

Smith said so, they’re, they’ve gone over all the numbers, and they have worked with other communities in Michigan to provide these drinking water filters to residents. They’ve done it in other communities. They approached Haven at some conference that he was at, and they expressed interest. Then after, they approached Smith. It sounded interesting enough that he at least wanted to present it to the council to see if it’s something they want to do.

Smith said so, they were going to come here tonight. Very quick, four-page PowerPoint presentation just to propose the idea that they would make these available to residents. Smith thinks the initial cost was very low. The thought was they would make their money later on when new replacement filters are needed, but they are proposing these as a way of filtering out impurities out of our drinking water. So, it doesn’t tap into your plumbing, it’s just something that sits on your counter. You fill it with tap water and then it filters out these impurities and then you fill your drinking glass from that.

Smith said there is a proposal. He’s a little surprised they asked that it be on tonight’s agenda, so he’ll have to follow up with them tomorrow and just slide this back to another meeting.

Wylie said OK, all right, thank you.

[Note: the council discussion returned to this item after completing Item #11d.]

Wylie recognized Quisenberry for a comment.

Quisenberry said he would like to ask something if he can. Wylie said sure.

Quisenberry asked if he can just to back up one moment. He’s been thinking about this. [To Smith], Quisenberry said he doesn’t understand this drinking water filter thing. Initially, he was thinking it was something that this place was going to come and install on all the homes the way that he first said it, but then clarified it and it’s something, it’s a product that this company, a private company, is offering to sell to us and not just us in the city, and the Township, and in Timbuktu, their product and then we can put it in our house and use it to clean our water. And that’s no different than going into Home Depot and buying the Acme water filter. So why did this, why is this even coming to them. If this company is just wanting to sell a product to us, why are we even listening to it?

Smith said it’s been presented, and the Michigan Municipal League sponsored this too, it’s been presented as something that’s superior to anything you find out there at Home Depot or, but you know, that’s a valid question. Smith doesn’t know the, he’s not a scientist, so he wouldn’t begin to know the improvement, the percentage improvement in filtering out arsenic. But that’s something that they say they can do. Smith was hoping they’d be here. They’ll speak to that, to the quality of improvement.

Quisenberry said he’s sure they’d say their product is superior. Roth said it’s a sales pitch. Quisenberry said and he also thinks that by them getting a municipal endorsement behind their product, it’s going to help them sell it, but do they want to get engaged in that. Smith said well, he wanted to hear them out, see what they were proposing. The cost. Is it no cost, or is there, what they initially implied was that there would be no cost to obtain the unit, but then later on, when you replace the filter every six months or every year, whatever it is, then they would sell those too, so it is a sales pitch in that regard.

Wylie said OK, thank you. They are on Item #11e – [Moon stood up and raised his hand] – motion to establish election. Forte told Wylie there was a question. Wylie said she was sorry and recognized Moon.

Moon said he wanted to make a comment. Before doing anything like this, he thinks he would want to get the input of a water quality specialist. Wylie said OK and thanked Moon.

Item 11d – Discussion: 2023 Historic District Commission Recap (Video time mark 1:00:56):

• • Clarkston Historic District summary of CoAs [Certificates of Appropriateness] for 2023 (page 25/31 of the council packet)

Wylie said so, they’re moving on. Item #11d is Discussion, 2023 Historic District Commission Recap, and she assumes Dr. Mike Moon is here to talk about that. They’ve got some houses.

Moon introduced himself as Secretary of the Historic District Commission [HDC]. Moon said they should have in their packet this summation. He knows that they’ve gotten some quarterly reports last year. This is a summation of all last year, so some that have been reviewed before and some new ones. Moon said he would just like to point out, in case they do not remember, this obviously includes the date of submission, the address, a photo of the property, the applicant name, the project, and the document that resulted and this COA refers to Certificates of Appropriateness, which is the official term used for the National Park Service, the Secretary of the Interior standards that they go by. Now, as they notice, all of these cases for last year received certificates of appropriateness.

Moon said there was just one slight exception. It’s kind of an interesting case here. It was at the end of the year. Well actually it started in October and then continued and just finally concluded in the January meeting this year. That is 91 North Main. Moon thinks they see it, yeah, two different locations. Yes, August 21^st and December 27^th. In this case, as they rarely do, but that’s happened from time to time, that they issue a conditional certificate of appropriateness. In other words, the entire project seems to correspond to the Secretary of Interior standards for rehabilitation but there was something missing. In this case, the applicant wasn’t sure what kind of balustrade he wanted, wasn’t sure about the skirting of the porch that he wanted, wasn’t sure exactly about the balusters that he wanted, the newel posts that he wanted. So, they said, OK, the entire project looks good. Looks like what they would like to see, that everything is conforming to the standards, what they will do so he could start his work is issue a certificate, but it’s conditional that he come back to them with these three things. Basically, newel posts, balustrade, skirting. And so, he did come back, and this was mutually agreeable to every member of the Commission and to the applicant. He came back to them two times, Moon thinks. Yes, here on December 27^th with the first two of the conditions that they stipulated, and then as Moon mentioned, the final one in January. And at those two meetings then he came back with all the information that they needed and so they issued amended certificates to show that he can prove they have approved of the final plans that he put before them. So, just kind of an interesting case, a little bit different from the usual cases that just get certificate of appropriateness for that.

Wylie asked if anyone on council had any questions for Moon.

No questions.

Moon said he had some interesting information. Wylie said OK. Moon said he thinks council is probably aware of the State of Michigan, let him see that he gets the terminology (unintelligible). Yes, this the state historic preservation tax credit. That’s something that they have, on the Commission have, tried to promote among residents and businesses in the community. It’s available through the State Historic Preservation Office [SHPO], and they’ve had, the owners of Rudy’s were interested in applying for this, and they’ve been helping them in their application to the State Historic Preservation Office, and they communicated this, they’re in communication with the people at the office who said yes, this is exactly what we want. We want your local historic district commissions to be helping these people because we want them to be successful, and the more that you can help them to get things right on their applications, the more possibility that they’ll be successful.

Wylie said that’s good news.

Moon said so far, it’s been in for both properties at both 5 and 9 South Main. Wylie said OK. Moon said so, they’re hoping that maybe this will be their first – Wylie said it looks like a test case – (continuing), Moon said people that yeah, that will get this. If not, then maybe they can find out why they weren’t successful – Wylie said sure – (continuing), Moon said but they’re hoping they’ll be successful. Wylie said hopefully, they get a second stab at it if they find out that they for some reason they didn’t get it.

(To Smith), Wylie said this might be something that would be good in your manager’s newsletter to let people know if they are doing improvements on historic homes in the district that they should be applying – Moon said oh yes – (continuing), Wylie said and talking with the HDC members about this process to apply for this tax credit. Moon said both residents and business owners. Wylie said and businesses, yes.

Roth said she does have a question for Moon. Her neighbor told her two people came up to her driveway and approached her and wanted her husband to sign something saying that he was interested, he would be willing to put his home, Roth guesses, in the district for a contributing home, and they told him he would then be able to get a credit of some sort. Is that what – Moon said OK, he doesn’t know anything about anybody coming around and approaching people, but – Roth said he said they came, and it was a couple, and they came, they presented themselves as being members of the HDC and asked if he would sign this. Roth said she asked him, he said so, they came to my house and asked me – Moon said that seems suspicious. Roth said she talked to Smith about it. She actually went further and tracked it down and because she said that to her sounds like, you know, somebody going door to door, which is not allowed. Moon said it sounds suspicious. Roth said but anyway, so she asked me about it and Roth said she thinks, it doesn’t make sense to her. But she said that they offered her husband and said you’ll get this great tax credit. And Roth said she didn’t know of any tax credit, but maybe that’s what he’s referring to.

Moon said well, it is, yeah, it is a good deal for you if you need to do work on historic property. Now, something that Roth said that it was interesting, that they mentioned the word contributing, because yes, a structure, in order to be eligible for the tax credit, it must be a contributing structure to the historic district. Not all structures are contributing. Roth agreed. Moon said and that has to be a contributing structure and the limitation is the period of significance. In our historic district currently, the period of significance is 1830 to 1930.

Ryan said that sounds suspicious that somebody – Quisenberry said was trying to get information. Ryan said he means nobody’s going door to door. Roth said well, that’s why she actually checked further on it because she said this doesn’t sound like somebody should be going, and actually the response was it would have to be sanctioned by the city if the HDC intended to do that. So, Roth was asking people on the council, did you guys remember because it would have been before she was here. In between.

Moon said any applicant would need to come to the HDC. Well, they would need to come to a city official to have it verified that their structure, home, or business is in the historic district, and it makes most sense that they come to a member of the Historic District Commission, and the State Office [State Historic Preservation Office] said in particular they prefer that it be handled by the Secretary of the Historic District Commission, and that’s why Moon was involved with it. Because he’s the secretary, they said it could be someone else, but that was their preference, that would be done by the secretary. Wylie and Roth said OK. Moon asked if there was anything else. Quisenberry said he applied for that. Moon said they would have to come to someone to get a signature.

Quisenberry said back when he was redoing his home and renovating it, he applied for that tax credit, but he was denied. Well, he didn’t get it because the money that was available is only about maybe one-fifth of the amount of requests that they get in and that’s why he didn’t. But he had to provide documents indicating that his house is listed in the state registry as a historic home and all that, and it was submitted. They accepted it, but it just wasn’t one of the ones they approved. Moon said they have heard that the money, you’ve got to get your application in – Quisenberry said early – (continuing), Moon said early because the money runs out. Quisenberry agreed. Moon said one thing he believes that they are hoping is that through this, if they have this many applicants, that maybe they could get more money. Wylie said early in like, what is it, a year or fiscal year, so in January? Moon said early in the year. Like for the owners of Rudy’s that they were working with, they got the paperwork, Moon finished his part of the paperwork in early December or about mid-December, and his indication from them was that they were fairly well finished with their applications to get it in for this year. Wylie said she was wondering if they, OK. All right.

Moon said he was wondering what was the address of the – Roth said she doesn’t know their address. It’s the end of Madison, straight down all the way up the driveway. Moon said OK. There’s one house on Madison that is in the historic district. Roth said it could be them, and maybe that’s why. She doesn’t know. Roth said she knows that actually – (interrupting Roth), Moon said he believes it’s noncontributing at this point. Roth said no, it is not. That’s why when he was approached, they said you could get your house, she means, he didn’t ask him for money or anything. They just said would you sign this petition so we could get your house into. But it’s up straight down at the end of Madison, if you go straight down, you go right up the driveway. Yeah, she knows he visited. Moon said yeah, he’s been there. Roth said she knows (unintelligible).

Wylie asked if Quisenberry had something else to add or ask. No comment from Quisenberry.

Wylie recognized Ryan for a comment. Ryan said so, he just says maybe you want to say that if Smith is going to talk about this credit, he may say that, you know, that there shouldn’t be people walking around soliciting. And if they have questions, they should go to the HDC. Roth said good idea. Ryan said because, he means, because it doesn’t sound kosher. Moon said yes, come to the HDC or one of the members of the Commission. Roth said she just wondered why, what benefit it would be for them.

Smith said there’s a website, the SHPO website, and they have information on this. Moon said yes. Smith said that’s why they give them a link directly from the website. Wylie said it’s just a suggestion for Smith’s newsletter, but it sounds like it’s something that they want to get the word out. Moon said, yeah, you can call up the forms right there and see what it entails.

Ryan said the tax credit disappeared under the Snyder administration and then it came back so he thinks, it was, you know, going as fast and then it’s back again. Moon said yeah, it’s back now. So that’s why they’ve been trying to get the word out so that people realize it’s now available again.

Wylie thanked Moon for coming and said they appreciate it. They certainly appreciated it when Jim Meloche [previous HDC Chair] was coming and she’s glad to see that HDC is continuing to come report to the council. Moon said yes, they will. It’s their pleasure.

Wylie said OK and thanked Moon again.

[Note: The discussion moved back up to the previous Item 11c re: the drinking water filters from IPW before moving ahead to Item #11e.]

Item 11e – Motion: Establish Elections Commission (Video time mark 1:17:54):

• • Motion – Election Commission (page 30/31 of the council packet)

Wylie said OK, Item #11e, motion to Establish Elections Commission and they have a motion.

(Wylie read the motion.)

Wylie said they need a motion and second to appoint city officer and qualified registered elector to the city’s election commission, effective immediately.

Wylie said so, they’re not actually even voting on whether or not they’re having an election commission. They’re only voting on appointing two members. (Ryan made an unintelligible comment.) One of them must be a councilperson.

Smith said just a registered elector. It can be just anybody. Wylie said but the first one says one appointive city officer. Smith said so, that could be Wylie, that could be staff, it could be Ryan, it could be – (laughter). Wylie said he didn’t like that. Ryan said he’s been on one, but that’s OK.

Wylie asked if anybody would like to make a motion.

Motion by Forte; second Roth.

Wylie asked if there was any discussion from the council.

Roth said yeah, she’s curious. So, does this happen every year that you make, has there been previously? Smith said there was one previously, but he doesn’t even have the records in front of him, but it’s been a couple years since they voted on this. So, there was one last year, they have, he thinks was carried over. Smith thinks he was the city officer. He doesn’t remember who the registered elector was. Smith asked DeLorge. (DeLorge made an unintelligible comment.)

Roth asked if this is something that meets up until the general election or what is it? DeLorge said it’s for the accuracy test. Smith said it’s for the accuracy test but there are other duties. Wylie said she did that once. OK. Roth said so what is it. You come for one time? Wylie said all she had to do then was come one come and since she was on city council, she thought it was odd for her to be, but she had to watch while the clerk ran some tests and determined that the machines were working properly. If it was the accuracy test.

Roth said so, it’s a one-time thing that somebody comes in prior to the election. DeLorge said it’s on the specific day of the accuracy test which is posted in the paper, and she puts it in the kiosk, and she puts it on the website, and you know, so everyone knows what the day is. Anyone can go to it. But yeah, it’s to test equipment, make sure she has test ballots from the printer. You just run them through, make sure that everything goes correctly and is electronically sent to the county and the county confirms it.

Quisenberry said so, isn’t it also true then that any councilmember that is up for election can’t be there? Roth said oh. Wylie said she doesn’t think it honestly matters, but they probably shouldn’t. Quisenberry said DeLorge said it’s – DeLorge said it just is, they frown upon that. Wylie said so, people who could potentially be up for election, in the November election, would be Wylie, Forte, anybody else, and Roth. OK, so the three of them can’t do it. Wylie said they all step back.

Roth said she was going to volunteer. It’s not on election day though, right? Wylie said no. Roth said, so, she wonders why that would, anyway, it doesn’t matter. Wylie said there are other people they could appoint. Any person. They could appoint Smith, Coté. Evelyn Bihl said she’s done it before. Wylie asked if she would like to do it again. Is it improper to ask to potentially appoint Bihl since she’s here. An unidentified person said that’s fine.

Smith said he just wants to clarify that there are other duties that can be assigned – Wylie said OK – (continuing), Smith said throughout the year. It’s not just a one-time event because, and this election year, obviously this presidential election year could be somewhat involved. There could be other duties that come up. Wylie said such as, any ideas such as? DeLorge said there are accuracy tests for every election. Wylie said for every election, so they’ve got February. DeLorge said August. Wylie said May also though? DeLorge said possibly May. She doesn’t know yet. Wylie said OK, so, February, maybe May, August, November. So, three or four. DeLorge agreed.

Quisenberry asked if they had any idea of a qualified registered elector that would be interested? If they’re going to pass a motion, they have to put a name in there, but do they know what name to put in? Smith said right, it would be unfair (unintelligible). Quisenberry said there’s somebody we don’t like. Roth said surprise, guess what you’re doing this year. Smith said and that’s probably why in the past they just made it somebody in the room.

Forte said if you worked elections previously, would that omit you from being able to do it? Smith and DeLorge said no. Forte asked if Cara Catallo would do it. Catallo said OK. Forte said that’s one person. Catallo said those people don’t like her, so she fits the bill. Forte said that’s not why she said it.

Catallo asked DeLorge if that would work for her, like, allows, puts her in a weird position. DeLorge said she didn’t care.

Wyle said so, they have potential people of Bihl and Catallo. Wylie asked Bihl if she was still good with this. Bihl said yes. Wylie asked Catallo if she was good with this. (No audible response from Catallo.)

Wylie said so, Forte and Roth have to modify their motion to include what the city officer would be. The city officer would be Evelyn Bihl. Wylie asked Bihl how she spells her name. (Bihl spelled her last name.) Wylie said she knew that; she didn’t know how to spell Evelyn. (Bihl spelled her first name.) Wylie said OK, and Cara. (Wylie spelled Catallo’s last name and Catallo confirmed the spelling.)

Wylie asked if Forte and Roth would abandon, would Roth modify her motion to include those names? Roth agreed.

Wylie said OK and asked if there was any other discussion.

No additional discussion.

The motion to appoint Bihl and Catallo to the Election Commission passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said OK, the motion is adopted.

Item 11f – Motion: Establish Finance (Budget) Committee (Video time mark 1:24:40):

• • Motion – Finance Committee (page 31/31 of the council packet)

Wylie said all right, now they have Item #11f, motion to Establish Finance (Budget) Committee.

(Wylie read the motion.)

Wylie said so, she needs a motion and a second.

Motion by Roth; second Forte.

Wylie said OK, Roth is making a motion and Forte is making a second to approve the appointment of mayor Sue Wylie, councilmember Mark Lamphier, and councilmember Ted Quisenberry to the finance committee, effective immediately.

Wylie asked if there was any discussion.

Roth said she thinks it’s a great group.

Motion passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said the motion is adopted.

Agenda Item #12, Adjourn (Video time mark 1:25:46):

Forte said she would make a motion for adjournment; second Roth.

Wylie asked if there was any discussion.

No discussion.

Motion to adjourn passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie thanked everyone and said they were done at 8:26 p.m.

Resources:

• • Link to video recording here 
  • 01-22-2024 City Council packet